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| Is Kardel a powerful hero? |
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| He is a hero killer! Worth of p433r factor! |
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33% |
[ 1 ] |
| He is lame hero! Feeder for the enemy! Burden of the party! |
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33% |
[ 1 ] |
| He is a mediocre hero! Nothing special. |
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33% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 3 |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3259 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: Kardel, Dwarven Sniper. |
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Ok. For the first time in my life I played a multiplayer DotA. My very first character was the dwarven sniper. I liked it a lot and killed many enemies, including heroes, with its assasinate ability. But I find him no touger than an ampaw.
So I want to know more about this dwarf. Is this a bad hero? strengths? weaknesses? is this hero highly approved? Discuss. |
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 1552 |
| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Kardel |
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Very interesting timing, Xtian, because I just had a really crap run and a really good run with Kardel. On the minus side, you really have paper thin HP. On the plus side, his standoff ability is really obscene with a proper gear build and skill setup, and he can feed like crazy with scattershot.
Personally, I like using Kardel. I'm not so much into CQB heroes, so he tends to work great, as long as you play cautiously, otherwise, you end up feeding the enemy. Just ask boy bakal. He turned me into an ambulatory Happy Meal. But with damage upgrade and attack speed items, he rocks!
I don't know the builds for this little bugger yet, but current setup I go for is headshot and take aim first, then assassinate and stat +. I almost never get scattershot. Standoff sniping and irritation, plus assassination strike out of nowhere for the win! It's definitely not perfect, but he can be damn fun.
Join next week's DotA games!
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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i didn't vote in the poll, because well, kardel isn't a hero killer... i mean, not really. he could be, but that would be much, much later in the game. but he's a good hero, i think, and from the few times i've used him, here's what i can tell you.
when you start out, don't get hit... and when i say don't get hit, i mean don't get hit. not even by those tiny little kobolds carrying their crossbows. kardel will die fast early on before you get to pimp him up.
start out with a buddy in your lane, preferrably a stunner. kardel is, to paraphrase phil, a veritable Happy Meal on legs for blinkers, backstabbers, gangbangers, wind walkers, what have you. this is why you need somebody to save your ass from time to time. this also means that, in a 3v3 game, kardel is not an ideal choice, not unless you invest some time and gold into evasion items, such as Lothar's Edge.
the build i use currently is treads-skadi-buriza-butterfly, then late game aegis divine. skills are alternating take aim and headshot, getting assassinate whenever appropriate, then taking scattershot last for some late game farming. it's a fairly effective build, i think.
in conclusion, while kardel isn't gonna get as many kills as sand king, balanar, necrolyte, yurnero, etc., he's still a highly effective hero with the right stuff and a good team. and remember, assassinate is an awesome ks skill!  [/i]
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3259 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| boy_bakal wrote: | | i didn't vote in the poll |
There are other poll options.
| boy_bakal wrote: | | kardel is, to paraphrase phil, a veritable Happy Meal on legs for blinkers, backstabbers, gangbangers, wind walkers, what have you. |
I was even got killed by Tiny while trying to assasinate other hero. 
Guys, after reading your posts, I felt like moving on. I find him fun but too vulnerable. Not dealing enough damage and an instant happy meal is just a no-no. I think I'll try other heroes first before I decide if I want to master this dwarf.
I The last hero i used against computer was the tauren guy. Looks promising. I'll make another thread about him if I need to know more.  |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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oh, well, i didn't vote because none of the options seemed to fit. anyway, tauren is okay, but he's a bit hard to use for newbies.
based on what i hear from you so far, i think you should prolly try Hero Killer Str types. Barathrum and Balanar come to mind, and perhaps Sand King. these heroes are capable of dealing good damage, but are tough enough to withstand a few attacks but still escape with their hides intact.
alternatively, you could also try wind walkers such as Bone Clinkz, Gondar, and Nerubian Assassin. although these types usually suffer from low armor, they have abilities that allow you to turn invisible. this is useful for when you get ganked (i.e. gangbanged) or just basically whenever you need a quick escape route. in addition, they're agi types, which makes them perfect hero killers due to their (usually) high attack and move speeds.
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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Makunouchi
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Fighting Spirit
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| Joined: 08 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 9 |
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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If Kardel gets killed at least twice early game, he's screwed. He depends too much on high-damage items. Damage is so-so even with an Eye of Skadi. He'll need something along the lines of a Demon Edge or Sacred Relic to deal serious damage with his range.
Of course, I tried other items builds for our little Dwarf. Diffusal Blade/Manta Style chips off at mana from afar quickly and provides HP, but again the damage is crap. But yes, he'll need equipment that increases life. Vanguard is an immediate choice. Soul Booster won't really get him anywhere. I've never tried S&Y with him, since Headshot 's already enough to slow the enemy down.
There. Maglaro nalang tayo Xtian  |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Makunouchi wrote: | | Damage is so-so even with an Eye of Skadi. He'll need something along the lines of a Demon Edge or Sacred Relic to deal serious damage with his range. |
true dat. i usually pair him up with a buriza then butterfly, but even then his damage ain't so hot. he's really good in a team though, where he can catch heroes trying to escape or harass, harass, harass the opponents' melee dude/s.
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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erwin
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Master of None
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| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 2932 |
| Location: Searching... |
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: Kardel |
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well, i would say that kardel is really powerful.. he's actually one of the few heroes that could live without items because of his ASSASSINATE skill..
_________________
There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3259 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Kardel |
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| erwin wrote: | | well, i would say that kardel is really powerful.. he's actually one of the few heroes that could live without items because of his ASSASSINATE skill.. |
But on an item dependent late game... he's screwed...  |
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 1552 |
| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Kardel |
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| Xtian wrote: | | erwin wrote: | | well, i would say that kardel is really powerful.. he's actually one of the few heroes that could live without items because of his ASSASSINATE skill.. |
But on an item dependent late game... he's screwed... |
Even assassinate won't do enough if you don't have a good gear package, unfortunately. However, I have to disagree with Xtian about late game usefulness. If you got a good set of agi and attack speed items, you can creep farm like crazy, so it's a relatively simple matter to get a good set of gear.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3259 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| lol. I was reduced to farming during my last game. After I got my radiance, I was farming like crazy. ^_^ |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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hey, don't underestimate the power of farming! good farmers make late game MVPs... so long as they don't get ganked too often, of course. XD
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3259 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| When i was farming during our last game I met some enemy heroes maybe planning to backstab or ambush. Bad experience. |
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Eris
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Juvenile Dragon
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| Joined: 25 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 36 |
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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i agree that kardel has thin hp but u dont actually need a partner. as long as u know how to dodge attacks from opponents ur good. PLUS he can deny like crazy having a VERY long range and fast attack. but of course this depends on the skill of the person using him.
i usually build lothars for him in the early game to escape. this way i could farm as well w/o getting killed. then that's where the other power ups come in.
the build is a little dependent on ur opponent. if my opponent kills creeps fast i usually get scatter shot and headshot first. scatter shot is good for farming. with this u can gain advantage of destroying the first tower. if the tower is lost u can scavenge for heroes then go back to ur place.
for me butterfly is good but i like buriza better. >.<
NOTE: (just another tip on DotA)
If u think ur opponent is building a black king bar, build a buriza. Buriza counters BKB. ^^;; proven and tetsted even if ur an int type and ur oppenent is str. <then again it depends on a player's skill aways>
_________________
"in the shadows of the valley
i walk, endlessly...
shouting for mercy, for what i have come to be."
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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I've never tried that Lothar's build... maybe I should one of these days.  And thanks for the Buriza tip! I didn't know that, hehehe...
One major gripe, though, is Kardel's damage. It's really low. Unless you get stuck with a melee hero in your lane, you've got a somewhat below average early game to work with. Even later on, when you've got all your high-powered items on him, he still doesn't have a very high damage output. But I guess you can get in a lot of hits from his high IAS and long range anyway, hehe.
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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dark_axis
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Eternal Elan
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| Joined: 02 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 1898 |
| Location: 666th Layer of Hell |
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: re:kardel |
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kardel is cute interesting but so thin that he needs someone very cautious to use him properly. ALso highly targeted by hero killers. lacks sneaky skills. lang ranks sa hide and move silently.
_________________
Only by confronting your darkest fears can you find the light...
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 3259 |
| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| what are the recommened items for Kardel? ... |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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depends on the build you're going for. kardel is very flexible, i'll give you that, so you have a variety of things you can put on him. the one constant is power treads.
first off, choose an orb. preferrable for kardel would be S&Y or Eye of Skadi. Stygian Desolator works as well.
second, choose between Buriza or mkb, or choose both if you prefer. personally i'm inclined towards buriza since kardel already has a fairly good IAS.
third, choose either Butterfly or Guinsoo's, or perhaps both. Guinsoo's helps to make Assassinate spammable, while Butterfly adds more damage, attack speed, and a bit of evasion.
after that you usually go aegis-divine. early game you might want to fit him with a lothar's and drop one of the late game items to fit in that slot instead. that works fine too, especially if you wanna go solo. otherwise i find it best to just bring a friend, particularly one with a stun skill, to help you out against potential backstabs, ganks, etc.
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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