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*Last edited by erwin on Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:32 am; edited 6 times in total*

TECH TEAM PROJECT: KOBOLD
basicaly this is a thread I separated from the original TTT for it to be strictly about kobolds, and possibly its acceptance as a playable race.

For one, I propose they get darkvision.
____________________________________________________________
--ERRATAS:--
Kobolds get lowlight vision, instead of normal.

--HEROIC FEATS--
Kobold Vision
Prereq: Kobold
Benefit: You now have darkvision.
In additiion, you have +1 feat bonus to Perception checks.
(name needs work)

Improved Trap Sense
Prereq: Kobold, Trap Sense racial feature, Trained in Thievery
Benefit: Your trap sense bonus to defense improves to +3.
Also, You get +2 feat bonus to Perception to find traps.

Dragonshield Tactics
Prereq: kobold, defender role
Benefit: As an immediate reaction, when an adjacent enemy shifts away or an enemy moves adjacent to you, you can shift 1 square.
Special: You must be wielding a shield to benefit from this feat.
(Name needs work)

--PARAGON FEATS--
Improved Shifty
Prereq: 11th level, Kobold, Shifty racial power
Benefit: Your shifty racial power allows you to shift 2 squares, instead of 1.

--EPIC FEATS--
Epic Shifty
Prereq: Kobold, shifty class feature, Improved Shifty
Benefit: Your shifty racial power now allows you to shift 3 squares.
____________________________________________________________

Comments and suggestions would be most appreciated. Very Happy

____________________________________________________________
EDIT LOG:
10/10/08: erwinedit: Added Kobold Vision; changed prereq of Mob Attack; added prereq of Imp Trap Sense
10/10/08a: erwinedit: Added Epic Shifty
17/10/08: BJ Edit: Moved, as this is a proposal.
19/10/08: erwinedit: removed Mob Attack

First: I am against the race getting DV, if only because of Game Balance. No other BT playable race has DV save the drow. And they have a very strong *coughemocough* one-with-darkness feel.

I suppose we could give it low-light vision though, and maybe a racial feat that could improve it to DV.

Feats:

Mob Attack. Not too fond of this one. While they do have a tendency to mob, but then again, so do almost every other small humanoid enemies.

Improved Trap Sense. I have no problems with this one. Although training in thievery could be an interesting requirement... Cool

Dragonshield Tactics. If we're going to call it that, then yes, the shield requirement works. Instead of the Defender Role, though, how about Proficiency with shields?

Shifty. First off, change the name to Improved Shifty or something. Second, I think this one is a tad bit too strong. I actually have a different idea with this (also a Paragon Feat, of course):

SHIFTIER[KOBOLD]
Prerequisites: Kobold, shifty racial power
Benefit: The shiftier racial utility power replaces one of your utility powers. The power it replaces must be 12th level or higher. If you do not yet have a 12th-level or higher power, you can replace the appropriate power when you gain it.

Effectively, you could do other shifts (say, with the Wizard Utility Expeditious Retreat) as a minor action. You could probably extend end of turn to end of round so that you can use it in conjunction with the immediate shift Utilities.

EDIT: Hmm, after some thinking, that still needs t be reworded. A lot. But the basic idea of what i want to do is there.

For the purposes of simplicity, I'll just be editing my first post. I'll just post in my later posts (such as this) what I edited and whatnot. And I'll put an editlog in the first post. (so should those who edits something there.)

Speaking of kobolds, do kobolds already have an identity on BT?

BJ, have you used kobolds in your BT campaign? If so, what are their traits/personalities?

We can split this discussion if you like.

Erwin, since this is about kobolds, I'll whip you with wet noodles if you ever abandon this.

Okay.

*I don't know what to do with Mob attack yet, but at it's current state, it's too vanilla for my taste. Also, why Wis 13?
*Kobold Vision: This could work.
*Dragonshield Tactics:

May Fluff team butt in on the fluff matter?

in general, unaligned. Culturally, we've got at least two distinct groups: subterranean cave dwellers who are somewhat like classic kobold miners, and the Sons of the Skylord, kobold clans adopted by the dragon god before its death, and who now wander the skies in magical airships ala Weatherlight and Predator. Those would be the techies. Imagine entire crews of kobold Squees...

Oh, and Kleomenes Dragonheart is an infamous captain of the Dragonheart Argosy. Team Fagnus has already met with Diomedes Dragonheart of the skyship Sparrowhawk, Kleo's (nephew/son/grandson?).

So are we good on this?

One thing I should know, are you guys good with kobolds having lowlight, and the feat gives darkvision, or normal vision and the feat gives lowlight instead? Just to finalize my character.

BTW, what are kobolds' subtype? the MM doesn't state that.

Let's limit this to kobold feats only, so offhand, I'd say allow everything but Mob Tactics.

And kobolds are humanoids in 4e. They don't have the reptile subtype, even. @.@ Maybe we should at least give them that.

Flavor suggestion. The playable kobolds in MM lose DV, right? Why not make the playable kobolds members of the Skylord clans? Solves two things:

1. Any kobolds from here would have some exposure to other species so that they wouldn't be totally out of place among other adventurers.

2. You could also claim that the Skylord clans lost their DV as they no longer functioned in underground environments.

Recommend:
-2 tier system for "recovering" kobold vision. A Heroic feat for low-light, and then a Paragon feat for DV.

Hmmm. that's good fluff Revan, but I'd go for lowlight vision.

I'll be declaring the feats and/or errata above as final, unless you guys have other concerns.

I'm good.

*Last edited by erwin on Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:27 am; edited 1 time in total*

Ok, then the 1st post is final. Very Happy

BTW, I'm trying to come up with a Skylord Captain, leader class PP for kobolds affiliated with the Skylord Clan (is the name final anyway?).
I'd like to ask for more info about them (Skylord Clan), though my idea was the captain was given mechanical wings, as symbol of their authority. Very Happy

BUMP!

Mechanical wings ... If I knew more about 4ed I could ask more questions ..

Overland Flight is very difficult, as Paragon Paths by default grant combat bonuses. It's best to keep these things to rituals.

An option would be to give it a Utility power to make them fly. The kobold will retroactively gain flight faster than a wizard, though...

How about making the flight clumsy?

Isn't overland flight supposedly weaker than normal flight?
As I understand it, overland flight allows you to fly during your movement, but you have to land on a surface at the end of your movement. Or did I misunderstood it? Embarassed

Overland Flight is "out-of-combat" flight. It lets you cver great distances, but usually ends when you take damage or whatnot.

Oh

i guess i did misunderstood, or misread Razz

I was planning to give it at 16th level (mechanical wings). I'll give it flight, but needs to land at each movement. Then a daily power that gives flight until EoE. (kinda like that cleric PP).

If you think mechanical wings are hard to put, I was thinking steam-powered jet packs Cool

Also, I need more flavor stuff about Skylord Clan (HELP FLUFF TEAM!). I kinda need it for inspiration for other abilities and powers.

So, should I post the rough idea (and discussion) here, or should we give it a separate thread?

@Xtian: Even though you don't know much about 4ed, ideas maybe helpful.

I'm still stuck at giving it mech wings, and so far no other possible benefits of being Skylord Captain. Also, I'm still thinking whether making it a leader class PP, or fighter, paladin, warlord PP (like than PP from FRPG, Cormyr related, cant remember).

Do we have a thread regarding kobold flavor?

Not really, though this thread may act as one for the mean time.
Have any ideas on hand?

Kobolds!

We have the air kobolds (Skylord Clan) and their flying ship.

I have an idea of iron kobolds who have instead a dragon engine as a their counterpart of air kobold flying ship. Initially, my idea was a warforged titan or colossus or something mechanical and very big and it was to supplement oghma's history of godforged colossus as a remnant of early wars. It seems oghma is no longer interested on developing the class I am giving the idea instead to our cute huggable kobolds. And instead of humanoid colossus, I made it a dragon. Like the airship it seems it houses endless number of kobolds.

I know that you can see some elements of M:tG here (airship? dragon engine? wtf?) but see it more as an opportunity to expand ideas. It would be interesting if Godfall war history (or rumors) is included about two powerful siblings duking it out with each other (he he!).

I am also thinking of a unique iron kobold which is invincible to almost all damage (flavorwise). Think of it like Colossus (X-men) except that he is a kobold and with his powers always on. The SKylord counterpart could either be like pre-Apocalypse Angel (X-men) or the emo post-Apocalypse Angel (the corrupted) with mechanical wings.

Maybe we can expand this further more with fire and/or water kobold. Fire clan kobolds have giant worm-like mechanical construct (mechanical hellion?) and water clan kobolds have tortoise (think B't X) or kraken or leviathan.

so.....what do you think? please don't throw anything at me

I like these ideas. I'm not so sure on the sibling rivalry thing, and I'm not so sure about elemental kobolds, but I love the idea of having numerous ancient war machines wandering the wildlands of BT.

Dragon Engines FTW. And that would really go well with the fact that the "tinker" kobolds were adopted by the Emperor Wyrm.

Since water is a scarce resource water clan kobolds is out... Snow or ice kobolds is still viable. On elemental kobolds, I'm still not sure with extended versions (fire, ice or water, earth, etc) but I am sure with air and iron kobolds.

Me too, I like the idea of wandering siege engines wandering around full of kobolds who have no idea what the hell those engines for.