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quickbrownfox

Adult Dragon

Joined: 29 Dec 2006

Posts: 163

Location: TSAB Section 6 Headquarters

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:41 am Post subject:

Quote:

3) If you�re dying at the end of your turn, roll 1d20.
Lower than 10: You get worse. If you get this result three times before you are healed or stabilized (as per the Heal skill), you die.
10-19: No change.
20: You get better! You wake up with hit points equal to one-quarter your full normal hit points.

Delicious "only a flesh wound" effect on a 20. DM's not gonna like the bleeding fighter he worked so hard on battering to go "i feel better now", and proceeds to dance on the BBEG's corpse moments later(which doesn't normally get a d20 to come back for round 2). I thought they wanted a "believable" dying system. dying doesn't work that way, never has.
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:48 am Post subject:

The stuff geeks do (or compile, or extrapolate) when they're bored.

4e PHB Lite

A lot of the numbers here are extrapolations, intelligent guesses. but if this is to be trusted, then a Pit Fiend (18000xp) is a standard threat for a lvl22-23 4-PC party, or a standard threat for a level21-22 5-PC party. That's high-CR22 in 3.5-speak.

Thus, a 4e Pit Fiend would make a hard, yet survivable, boss fight at 18th level.

Not as bad as it originally seemed, the Pit Fiend being a 26th level Soldier and all.
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the-bumper-car

Old Dragon

Joined: 30 Aug 2007

Posts: 577

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject:

quickbrownfox wrote:

Quote:

Well, not really. Here are the odds:

On the first turn you're dying, you worsen on a roll of 1-9. So that's a 9-in-20 chance (assuming a fair d20). You also get a 1-in-20 chance of getting better.

To worsen on both of the first 2 turns, your odds are (9/20)^2, or an 81-in-400 chance. The odds of being dead at the end of your first 3 turns of dying is (9/20)^3, which is now 729-in-8000. However, your odds of getting better remains at a static 1-in-20 each turn. By my calculations, you are far more likely to die at the end of your first 3 turns than get better, since 10-19 means no change.

So it would still be more prudent for a party with a dying member to go and stabilize him before the 3rd turn, especially if he's gotten 2 worsens already. It also means that the Fighter with the 200 max hp (and 100 negative hp) and the squishy Mage with the 60 HP (and 30 negative HP) are equally likely to die at the end of the 3rd turn of dying, assuming that they don't receive any further damage once they start dying.

Sure, it's not really realistic - but it makes both dying and healing a lot less complicated, and the game a lot more fun. It takes only 2 paragraphs to explain this mechanic, while the old dying mechanics needed a page (or 2), IIRC.
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Xtian

Goderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 3260

Location: Avernus

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:13 am Post subject:

And remember! Dying is antithesis of fun!!!

Current WOTC philosophy:

If it ain't fun it's out!

But come one on nat 20 rule... how many hollywood films have you guys watched in which the protagonists, after getting beaten into coma then shot three times at the head only to get up and kill the antagonists?
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject:

I'm wondering if we should pre-order 4e. I'm not sure if the demand will be high. But I do want my core books by June. What do you guys think?
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oghma

Ancient Dragon

Joined: 20 Mar 2007

Posts: 857

Location: The Happy Hunting Grounds

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject:

Search your heart, you know it to be true. Very Happy

The problem would be funds, should we dip in to org cash or should it be personal money?
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

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Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject:

I'm getting 4e for me, not for the org. I am certain that we'll get some kind of a better deal if all those who want to buy decide to do so, though.
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Revan

Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 1552

Location: Korriban

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject:

I'd be go, just need to scrape up the cash. Btw...I believe you owe me enough for one rulebook, BJ? Very Happy

PHB? I'm still looking at summer job prospects for getting cash though.
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

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Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:07 am Post subject:

Can we not discuss private things here, Rev?

Besides, i don't think I owe you that much. Half a book, yes. But I don't think I got as high up as 2k.
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Revan

Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 1552

Location: Korriban

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:15 am Post subject:

Oh. Yeah. Roger dokey on that one, my bad.

EDIT: Anybody have ideas on what PC classes you guys want to try out when 4E rolls in? Personally, I want to give the Warlord's command moves and party boosts a shot. If not, maybe the Rogue, for high-damage quick-strike.
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the-bumper-car

Old Dragon

Joined: 30 Aug 2007

Posts: 577

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject:

Revan wrote:

Dual-scimitar wielding Drow Ranger? Razz

Just kidding. Maybe a Rogue or a Fighter. The Warlock sounds unique, so I might try that too.
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erwin

Master of None

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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject:

I want to test rogue, the new archetypes seem interesting.
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject:

Wizard, if I get to play. But I have this gut feeling that I'll mostly be DMing.
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boy_bakal

Lord of Pwnage

Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 1920

Location: Zero

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject:

I want to try something I've never tried before.

So, Cleric.
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Revan

Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 1552

Location: Korriban

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject:

BJ wrote:

Wizard, if I get to play. But I have this gut feeling that I'll mostly be DMing.

Hey, I'd be willing to DM too. But priority,first, the entire group needs to get at least one set of corebooks.
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Xtian

Goderator

Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 3260

Location: Avernus

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: 4th Edition Monster Manual Excerpts

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080414a

Infernal creatures.
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject:

Level 9 controller is worth 400xp.
Level 9 encounter is worth 2000xp.
--> a 9th level party can take on 5 succubi as a standard encounter.

That would probably mean that the succubus can work out as a 4th level solo. The xp sounds very low, however...
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject:

4e Templates.

Comment: A lot simpler. Makes a DM's life much easier. Although I currently don't know how to give this to a player...

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080418a
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dark_axis

Eternal Elan

Joined: 02 Jan 2007

Posts: 1898

Location: 666th Layer of Hell

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:10 am Post subject:

think i'd go for a warlock always wanted to roleplay one hehehe
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:07 am Post subject:

Made of want.

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Pitz-Ikko

D' Original Henio

Joined: 16 Jan 2007

Posts: 719

Location: Abu Dhabi

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject:

I'm getting mine sometime in June. Pre-ordered through Amazon. Several of the dudes here want to try it out, so maybe I'll give it a go.

I'm not bothering with reading anymore before I get the books, though. I see no point in fretting about it.
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:52 am Post subject:

I just have to post this... Laughing

Erathaol from WotC boards wrote:

This happened to my group as well, but it's sort of a long story.

At first, there was resistance, as their is for anything. The ones who enjoyed playing non-spellcasters converted immediately. They questioned absolutely nothing after I showed them the pregenerated Fighter, Paladin, and Ranger (and the Rogue excerpt).

All their number knelt before the altar of 4th edition. They tore their clothes and shaved their heads. They sacrificed animals upon it, and proclaimed the glory of that which was soon to come.

But still, their was disdain. The players of witches, heretics, and conjurers. Where the light of 4th edition shone, they shrunk from it into the shadows. Their ears were deaf to its words, and they shut their eyes to avoid its truths.

I, and my number, however, true believers that we were, were not deterred. "Wizards cast all day long now!" I proclaimed "You'll never have to pull out thy DS again! 4th edition has made such things unnecessary for its children!". The fool only smiled for a moment and then spat, with the poison of heresy "Ah, but of course! We cast all day now, but what would you have me as? A blaster, no doubt. What is it worth to cast all day when all it is I do is throw fireballs!" At this point, I must confess, my faith wavered, by 4th edition turned aside the mire of his idiocy and showed me the truth.

"No! A blaster is not what you shall be. Your ears have been beset by half truths and blasphemy! Fly, Mirror Image, SLEEP! They're all still there, we know this and 4th edition has yet to even arrive in its true glory! But this is not even the greatest of the marvels you shall have. Rituals await thee in the arms of 4th edition! Never shall you have to sacrifice spell slots for narrowly focused utility spells that you may never need!" The Wizard's heart had grown soft, and he too converted. From that day forward, he dwelt in the light of 4th edition with I and my fellows.

This left only one player. A 3rd edition cleric. He had seen what had transpired with the Wizard and chose only to flee, saying that our words were a plague that would only consume those that were fool enough to attempt to weather them. As he crawled down into the dark places to shun us from, he did not hear my comment about our words being more like an Affliction from the Book of Exalted Deeds than an actual Disease.

"Why would you choose such folly!" my voice echoed as I followed him through darkness, the infallible Balance of 4th edition steadying my feet against the slippery bog of ignorance "Clerics! They aren't just buffbots anymore! They buff by calling down fiery pillars of holy death upon their foes, allowing them to actively participate in combat. Their healing is a swift action! It all works!" and then I stopped. There he lay, a wall set into his path. He could avoid the Truth no longer. The burning light painfully seared the stupidity from his flesh, but still he resisted.

"It is not that! Do you take me for such an imbecile? Of course the classes work better! All the machinations of 4th edition are sublime in their tactical depth and ease of use. But, do you really expect me to believe in 4th edition when it would take from me the Great Wheel? The Blood War? All the inhabitants of the Upper Planes? And give me what...two new core races? Wristcutterlings and SuperKobolds? Such is not the work of a just and loving edition!"

The wisdom of 4th edition filled me at that moment. Before I even uttered the words, I knew that I had won this day. "They haven't taken anything from us! Don't you see? I don't like their changes to the fluff either! But that takes all of 10 minutes to change! My campaign will have the Great Wheel, the Blood War, the Eladrin, Archons, Angels and Furries returned to the Upper Planes, and the Tiefling and Dragonborn returned to their old selves! Not to mention that homebrewing is ten thousand times easier now, so anything that needs making, I can just make if it hasn't already been posted upon the Giant in the Playground homebrew forums."

The silence was quite justified. He had nothing left to say. Tears welling in his eyes and he knelt, kissing my feet. "There is no need for that. We are brothers now. Children of 4th edition, and it will never lead us astray. Praise it, and not me!"

And it was so; that in the coming days, all of us, together, prospered in the guidance and boundless knowledge of the new edition.

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erwin

Master of None

Joined: 06 Dec 2006

Posts: 2932

Location: Searching...

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:48 am Post subject:

got this from DF:

sneak peeks on core books

EnWorld Source wrote:

* Nearly every class has 4 At-Wills available to chose from at 1st level, Wizard has 5. Same goes for Encounters. Fighter, Paladin and Rogue have 3 Dailys, everyone else has 4. More become available at higher levels.
* The Dragonborn breath type is chosen at character creation. Also, Dragonborn Females do have boobs, at least in the picture.
* Multi-Classing requires a related Stat of 13+. Each class has an Initiate Feat associated with it. Get to pick 1 Skill from class, also get 1 specified power. There are also 3 Power Swap Feats starting at 4th level. Swap any (Encounter Attack, Utility, Daily) Power you have for one of equal or lower level from your chosen Multi-Class. The 3 feats are of different levels, one for each power type (Encounter, Utility, Daily.)
* 2-weapon fighting is a feat, but just gives a damage bonus, not an extra attack. The ranger can take an at-will that gives him an extra attack.
* Shifters are actually cool. Once the hit bloodied, they get an ability that kicks in and last the last of the encounter that adds +2 spd and I believe + dmg (for shifter: razorclaw). The other shifter had another + ability that kicked in at bloodied and lasted the whole time.
* Rogues are AMAZING. Like seriously, damn near Op. At 3rd level they get a utility power that lets them re-roll any bluff check (Trigger: when player rolls bluff, and doesn't like the look of the roll.) They also have a nice garrotte ability that does 7w and can be held for a bit...fun thing about holding it is that attacks on the rogue have a possibility of hitting the person you're choking). They get auto-escpape grapple abilities, and lots of things playing off Combat advantage (including one that we figured could add 7W dmg +10d8 +dex mod). Very sick.
* Starpact warlocks can throw you into the stars and bring you back bent...and infernal pact locks can banish someone to hell for a time (keeping them there for up to 3 rounds with a minor action).
* If you take multiclassing paragon path option, you get an at will ability of your new class at 11, and a new encounter and daily at upper levels.
* Minotaurs are a MM race, and get a fun per encounter charge attack, and +2str and +2 con.
* Doppelgangers get a "look like another humanoid" ability that's at will effectively.
* Gnomes. GNOMES. Gnomes are insane. Gnomes can *turn invis* once per encounter after they've taken dmg. They can also choose to roll "hide" instead of intialtive at the start of an encounter. Hello Gnome Rogue. And by "hello" I mean, "Please, for the love of god, stop stabbing me in the back." My friends quote was "Man, I hate gnomes! They're stupid! But now I can't stop picturing a pack of gnomes sitting in the trees doing the clicking noise that the Predators make in the alien movies. Stupid stealth gnomes. I'm going to have to play one."
* Bugbears get a dmg bonus for combat advantage I believe.
* Rituals: range from cheap to learn and cast to expensive. As an example: Raise Dead costs 650GP to learn uses a 500gp reagent, and "scales" at levels. At lowever levels, it's "free" except for the reagent cost." At medium levels it's 5,000gp. And at epic levels it's 50,000. Oh, and the raised person gets a penalty of -1 until you've passed "3" milestones.
* Oh, and another interesting/weird feature....there is an easy to cast ritual that clears 1 status ailment (curse, disease, etc) each time it's cast, but with a catch. You make a heal check, and your result ='s how much dmg the TARGET sick player takes while being healed. SO, a low roll can kill outright, or can do dmg. A high roll causes very little dmg.
* Timestop is a spell in 4e. Gives you 2 extra actions, neither of which can be used for attack.
* Trapfinding is part of thievery.
* Tumbling is a Rogue Utility power. Once per encounter, shift half your base move.
* +1 to each of two different stats at about every 4th level, but there are a few levels (I think 11 and 21) where every stat gets a +1 bonus.
* Star Pacts - One ability throws the person into "A dark and twisted area of space", for 7d10 dmg (and this could be off, I didn't write it down) where they float for a bit then fall down "mad"...considering everyone there enemy. They take Opportunity Attacks on everyone, and consider everyone an enemy. I honestly got a psudonatural flavor...not in the "weird tentacle" way, but in the "things man was not meant to know kind of way."
* Warforged were in the book too, but stripped down a bit. Less immunities. And their encounter ability felt to me a bit meh...once per encounter when blodied you heal con mod + 1/2 level. Still, not a bad race...but not so zomg overpowered as they once were.
* The following monsters were listed with some info for use as playable character races: Bugbear, Doppleganger, Drow, Githyanki, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold, Minotaur, Orc, Shadar-Kai, Shifter (2 types), Warforged.
* These are the listed Dragons: Black, Blue, Green, Red, White.
* There are 5 Alignments: Good, Lawful Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil, Unaligned. Among the gods I did not see any evil or CE listed.
* I did get a bit on the Warforged: +2 STR, +2 CON, Speed 6, Vision Normal, +2 to Endurance Skill, Can wear armor.

OMG gnomes! Laughing

I'm still unfamiliar with why are there only 5 alignments (namely Good, Lawful Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil, Unaligned).

EnWorld Discussion about 5 Alignments
On why there are no evil gods in the PHB
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

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Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject:

I soo want to rebuild Kruzko the Bard for 4e. Unstil the Bard shows up, though, I think he works best as an Orc Warlord with Paladin/Wizard Multiclass.
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miguel d cannith

Juvenile Dragon

Joined: 24 May 2008

Posts: 32

Location: Eberron

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject:

BJ wrote:

I soo want to rebuild Kruzko the Bard for 4e. Unstil the Bard shows up, though, I think he works best as an Orc Warlord with Paladin/Wizard Multiclass.

I think you can only multiclass once in 4e...

Xtian

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Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 3260

Location: Avernus

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject:

Maybe he meant multiclass feats.

BTW, welcome wyrmling! Very Happy

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"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

miguel d cannith

Juvenile Dragon

Joined: 24 May 2008

Posts: 32

Location: Eberron

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject:

thanks xtian Very Happy

still, in 4e you can only pick one class to multiclass into. all the multi-class feats one picks shall relate to that one class.

He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject:

My bad... I meant Pally OR wizard multiclass. Speculative building is all. Very Happy

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miguel d cannith

Juvenile Dragon

Joined: 24 May 2008

Posts: 32

Location: Eberron

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:54 am Post subject:

he he. interesting combinations though.

would have thought the warlord/wizard would be a normal choice but the warlord/paladin didn't really occur to me. (i would pick rogue/warlock as my multiclass combination)

but taking a look at the warlord's exploits and the paladin's divine challenge, it does make sense. though i'm seeing that the character would really be sacrificing himself for the good of the party.

my old gaming group isn't really for party support/cooperation but i guess that would have to change when 4e comes out coz of all the powers that keep boosting and affecting other party members.

He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject:

I always enjoyed being the buff character (which is why I liked the bard so much in 3.5). I find it rewarding when the party realizes that they're so much better at doing what they do when I'm around. Very Happy

Admittedly, though, it's not everyone's cup of tea.
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