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erwin

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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:30 am Post subject:

How come it still has AC? I thought AC was a thing of the past?
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:21 am Post subject:

Apparently, AC is still alive, erwin.

Things I've noticed so far:
"Elite Soldier" is in no way a PC class:
*"Elite" could mean it is advanced, like the Elite Bullette they showed a month or two back. Thus the Pit Fiend is an "Elite Devil"
*"Soldier" sounds like the 4.0 warrior. Among other things, notice that it has average BAB.
*Immortal Humanoid (Devil). Is it just me, or is the baatezu subtype gone?
*Fixed xp. Easier for DM's, suckier for PC's behind level trying to catch up.
*No See in Darkness, only Darkvision.
*Why the f is he wielding a mace?
*Poison is now continuous damage.
*Alignment evil. Does this mean lawVSchaos is being relaxed?
*What the f is the Supernal tongue? Does this mean all my outsiders speak the same language now?
*Ultimately, the entry looks a lot cleaner.
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erwin

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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:44 am Post subject:

BJ wrote:

*Fixed xp. Easier for DM's, suckier for PC's behind level trying to catch up.

NNOOOOO!!!!
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quickbrownfox

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Joined: 29 Dec 2006

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Location: TSAB Section 6 Headquarters

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

Has anyone noticed the "minor action"? Swift/immediate of 4.0 perhaps? Or am I late to notice this and didn't read previous entries?
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Pitz-Ikko

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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject:

erwin wrote:

BJ wrote:

*Fixed xp. Easier for DM's, suckier for PC's behind level trying to catch up.

NNOOOOO!!!!

And since when do you keep to D&D rules that you feel are suck-tastic? That's one of the strong points of pen-&-paper RPGs: flexibility.
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:48 am Post subject:

I actually like the xp fixing. Encourages the players to never miss my games. Not to mention it's easier to give the "behind" player extra xp instead of having to compute xp for each ECL. Bleh.

quickbrownfox wrote:

Has anyone noticed the "minor action"? Swift/immediate of 4.0 perhaps? Or am I late to notice this and didn't read previous entries?

Hmm, an interesting observation. Yeah, I suppose minor and standard is easier to understand than swift, immediate, free, and standard. lol

No other comment on the Pit Fiend? Oh well :/
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erwin

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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject:

So if AC is still AC, the saves are still the same?
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject:

Saves now work similar to AC:

*A weapon "attacks" your AC.
*Poison "attecks" your Fortitude.
*A Fireball spell "attacks" your Reflex.
*A Jedi mind Trick "attacks" your Will.

At least, that's how I understand it. Razz

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erwin

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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject:

4e Rogue Review

Rogues use shurikens now!!

looks like every martial class is an initiator now.
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject:

erwin wrote:

looks like every martial class is an initiator now.

Pfft. I could have told you that. In fact, I think I did, at one point. Razz

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erwin

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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject:

Actually you did. Very Happy

I'm lacking out of comments Laughing

But somehow this would make martial classes more... confusing, in a way. Razz

in a slacker's point of view Laughing

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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject:

erwin wrote:

But somehow this would make martial classes more... confusing, in a way. :Razz:
in a slacker's point of view :Laughing:

In ToB, a 1st level Martial Adept isn't that hard to make. But at 10th level, things get different because of pre-requisites from the maneuvers and such.

I am hopeful that they addressed this situation. But if not, it simply means that they are advocating Games that start at level1.

And level 1 is the ideal slacker's game, imo.

Now, what I'm really interested at is the way they handled hit points. This article presents us with interesting info.

*HP at 1st level=k+con score (not mod), where k=some constant, presumably derived from twice HD from 3.5. Thus a 1st level rogue with 12con gets 24hp. The poor unhealthy rogue with 8con doesn't have it that bad anymore, with 20hp at 1st level.
*Fixed hp gain/level. -Is a bit boring, but cute. Rogues get 5hp per level (not adding con!), so I assume wizards get 3, fighters get 9.

Extrapolation1:
Suppose you have a 20th level fighter with 18con, a 20th lvl wizard with 8con, lvl20 rogue with 12con:
-Wizard gets 73hp
-Rogue gets 119hp
-Fighter gets 210hp

Hypothesis: Wizards still get the short end of hp, but it's not as bad as before; in 3.5, said lvl20 wizard with 8con gets 29hp.

Extrapolation2:
Suppose you have 3 lvl20 rogues; 1 with 8con, one with 12con, and a tough one with 18con
-8con rogue gets 115hp
-12con rogue gets 119hp
-18con rogue gets 125hp

Hypothesis: Con score no longer affects your hp as much. this reduces the con importance a bit, but as it is still vital to your Fortitude defense, it's still a useful stat.
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject:

Hmm, after some thought, I think what they'll do instead is have wizards gain 4hp/lvl, rogues 5, clerics 6, fighters 7. that makes the disparity smaller.

Of course, it's just speculating.

Just like my speculation that 4e will not see balors. Crying or Very sad

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erwin

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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:20 am Post subject:

Spirit of Fire of DF wrote:

http://ddxp.tumblr.com/page/1

4E character sheets (half-elf warlock, dwarf fighter) posted from D&D Experience in DC.

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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject:

WotC news wrote:

1. Character roles are more clearly defined.
Everyone who�s played D&D knows that there are roles for
each character � some characters �tank�, some characters
are �artillery�, etc. 4th Edition defines those roles into four
types � controller, defender, leader, and striker. Controllers
(like wizards) deal with large amounts of enemies at once,
favoring offense over defense. Defenders (like fighters and
paladins) are the front-line characters that have great
defensive abilities and good melee offense. Leaders (like
clerics and warlords) are good at aiding other members of
the party by healing, inspiring, or protecting them. Strikers
(like rangers, rogues, and warlocks) deal large amounts of
damage to single targets at one time and quickly move about
the battlefield. Most adventuring parties consist of at least
one character of each of the roles.
2. Powers give you more combat options.
Clerics chant prayers, wizards incant spells, and fighters
attempt exploits. These are all examples of powers � your
suite of combat options. Three power sources � arcane,
divine, and martial � are presented in the Player�s Handbook.
Each character class draws abilities from one of these power
sources: clerics and paladins use divine powers (prayers),
warlocks and wizards use arcane powers (spells), and
fighters, rangers, rogues, and warlords use martial powers
(exploits).
You get a number of powers based on your character�s
level. Powers can be used at-will, once per encounter, or
once per day depending on the power.
TIP: Use your at-will powers instead of using basic
attacks. They�ll frequently do more than just a modest
amount of damage to one enemy.
3. Attacker rolls against a static defense.
In 4th Edition, you have 4 defense values � Armor Class,
Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. The attacker chooses an attack,
rolls 1d20, adds the attack bonus, and calls out the result
against the appropriate defense. The defenses are all static
numbers, just like Armor Class was in 3rd Edition. Attack
actions involve a �to hit� roll against any and all targets, so a
power that targets all enemies within 1 square requires a
separate attack roll against each enemy affected.
TIP: If you make an attack against multiple targets, you
don�t roll damage for each target � just roll that once. It�s best
when you attack multiple targets to roll damage first, and
then roll your attacks.
4. Standard, move, and minor actions.
Each time it�s your turn, you get one standard, one move,
and one minor action. Standard actions are usually attacks,
move actions are usually used to move, and minor actions
are little things like drawing a weapon or opening a door.
You can always exchange a standard action for a move
action or minor action, or a move action for a minor action.
There are also free actions, which take almost no time or
effort, such as dropping a held item or talking. You can take
free actions during your turn or anyone else�s turn, and as
many as you like (within reason).
There�s another category of actions called triggered
actions � these include opportunity actions (like opportunity
attacks) and immediate actions (like a readied action). Your
DM can tell you more about those should you need them.
5. Healing gets an overhaul.
Hit points still measure your ability to stay in the fight, but
healing�s no longer just the burden of one character
anymore. Each character has a certain number of healing
surges. Once during each encounter, you can take a
standard action called a second wind; this gives you a certain
amount of hit points back equal to your healing surge value
and gives you a +2 bonus to all your defenses until the start
of your next turn. You then tick off one of your healing
surges for the day. Some powers (like some cleric prayers)
will also heal you your healing surge value, and you�ll tick off
your healing surges for them as well. When you run out of
healing surges, you�ll want to take an extended rest.
If you�re outside of combat, you can take a short rest and
tick off the healing surges you need to heal up damage.
TIP: If you�ve been knocked down a few hit points and
can�t decide what to do when it�s your turn, taking a second
wind action is a good idea.
6. Short and extended rests.
Resting�s now divided into two groups � short and extended.
A short rest lasts 5 minutes, and is a long enough time for
you to regain your encounter powers and use healing surges
to heal up. An extended rest is akin to �camping� and lasts 6
hours. After an extended rest, you�re fully healed, you have a
full compliment of healing surges, you have your daily
powers back, and you reset your action points to 1.
TIP: It�s good to take an extended rest when some
members in the group are down to about 1 healing surge
remaining, or everyone has used all their daily powers.
7. Attack!
Attacks are divided up into a few different types. Melee attacks
are those you make usually when you�re adjacent to your target.
Ranged attacks can be made at any distance up to the maximum
range of the attack; however, if you take a ranged attack next to
an enemy you provoke an opportunity attack against you. Close
attacks affect an area starting with squares adjacent to you;
these attacks don�t provoke an opportunity attack. Area attacks
usually affect an area at range; these attacks do provoke
opportunity attacks.
Most of the time when you take an attack, you�ll use one of
your powers. However, there are some times when you�ll use a
basic attack � just a regular old swing of the sword or shot from
the bow. These attacks are less powerful than using powers, but
they can get the job done. You�ll use a basic attack when you�re
charging, making opportunity attacks, or when you use certain
powers.
8. Action points give you an extra action.
You begin each adventure with 1 action point, and you can get
another one for every 2 encounters that you complete (called a
milestone). You can spend 1 action point per encounter to take
one extra action on your turn. It can be a standard, move, or
minor action.
When you take an extended rest, your action points reset
back to 1.
TIP: Make sure to spend action points at least once every
other encounter (as often as you earn them), since you can only
spend one per encounter.
9. Movement is quick and easy.
Each character has a speed listed in squares. One 1-inch square
equals one five-foot square in the game world. When you take a
move action, you can move up to the indicated number of
squares. Moving from one square to another, even diagonally,
costs 1 square of speed. Sometimes terrain will slow you down,
costing you more than 1 square of speed � this is called difficult
terrain.
Moving away from an enemy adjacent from you usually
provokes an opportunity attack. However, you can also use a
move action to shift; this lets you move one square without
suffering an opportunity attack from adjacent enemies.
TIP: If you need to get somewhere fast, you can run as a
move action. This gives you +2 speed for your move, but you
grant any attackers combat advantage until the beginning of
your next turn.
10. Saving throws are straightforward.
Sometimes your character will be hit by an ongoing effect, like
taking poison damage or being immobilized. When this
happens you�ll usually get to make a saving throw to remove the
effect at the end of your turn. Saving throws are simple � just
roll 1d20. If you roll a 10 or higher, you�ll end the effect. If you
roll a 9 or lower, the effect will usually continue until you have
to make another saving throw at the end of your next turn.
Some characters have bonuses that can be applied to certain
types of saving throws, and some powers grant modifications to
saving throws as well.
11. Durations are easy to manage.
Most effects that have durations (usually imparting a condition
on the target) last either until the target makes a saving throw to
ward it off, or until the end of the next turn of the attacker that
caused the nasty effect. A few effects have durations that last
through the entire encounter. No more tracking rounds to
determine when your effect ends!
12. Reach (usually) isn�t as threatening.
Reach (possessed by some monsters and weapons) is only
�active� on the attacker�s turn. Otherwise, attackers with reach
function just like those without reach. This is usually most
relevant when determining the area a character or monster
threatens.
TIP: Watch out for the few creatures with threatening
reach � they can threaten more than just squares adjacent to
them.
13. A trio of �c� rules you might want to know.
� Combat Advantage � This gives you a +2 bonus to attack
rolls when you�re flanking, or when the target is under one
of a number of conditions (dazed, surprised, etc.).
� Cover � If an enemy has cover, you get a -2 penalty to
attack rolls against it. Your allies don�t provide cover, but
enemies do. There�s also no penalty for making ranged
attacks into melee.
� Charging � This is a standard action. Move up to your
speed, and make a basic attack. You get a +1 bonus on the
attack roll. You have to move at least 2 squares from your
starting position, and you must charge to the nearest square
from which you can attack your target. You can�t charge if
the nearest square is occupied, but you can charge over
difficult terrain (it just costs you extra movement).

LInkage to download here

So, saving throws are still in, but is no longer Fort, Ref, Will. That clears up a few things about poison...
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject:

I think you guys will enjor my search-fu, now that my DSL is up and running again:

You still have to squint a bit, though.. Laughing

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Revan

Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 1552

Location: Korriban

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject:

On a related note, check this link out:

http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/02/first-look-at-n.html

Specifically, one of the links in this article that has a quick rules primer on the differences on 3.5 vs 4E.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/news_20080228.zip
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject:

Err, Rev, that's the exact same thing I posted.
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Revan

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Posts: 1552

Location: Korriban

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject:

Heh. Missed it.
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erwin

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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject:

charging is a standard action!!
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject:

What I like best is the new AP system.
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erwin

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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject:

yeah, no more "I use AP for extra spell (alter fortune)". Razz

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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject:

taken from: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35799

Massawyrm wrote:

Hola all. Massawyrm here.

I�ve waited a long time to write this review. And let it be known now that what you�re about to read isn�t from someone who has gotten a hold of a bootleg playtest copy and gave it a quick once over. No. This is a long time coming. I�ve been playtesting 4th edition since late October. Long under an NDA, my excitement for this new edition has been bubbling over into something of a churning froth for the better part of four months now. Every Saturday of those four months (holidays be damned) our group (comprised of three married couples and a single friend) has gotten together to nosh some potato chips, guzzle some coffee and roll some god damned dice. One of our members, a freelancer for WotC, needed to learn the rules for an upcoming 4E book he got hired to work on. But as he apparently learns the rules better playing than he does running, he turned to me over a cup of coffee, narrowed his eyes and told me point blank that I was about to jump in head first. That�s right. Dungeon Massawyrm. There. Now the joke is out of everyone�s system.

Let me just say this upfront. I. Love. 4E. And I didn�t want to. Much like many of you out there, the 3.5 partial reboot just five years ago pissed me off. But we�ve spent 8 years now with the better part of this system. And hell, even 5 years is a long time. But Massawyrm, you�re thinking you don�t know how much I�ve spent on 3.5. No? Here at the Casa de la Wyrm we don�t have a D&D bookshelf. We have a D&D closet. It�s where I keep my boxes of Dwarven Forge Master Maze, my big plastic bins of D&D Minis, and two long shelves of over $1000 in 3.5 books. But just 2 weeks into playing 4E, I boxed up every non-fluff heavy book I owned, drove down to Half Price Books and sold them for as much cash as I could get. I knew I would never, ever, touch them again. Yes. 4E really is that good. It is the XBOX 360 to your XBOX. And it is time to upgrade my friends.

One other thing to note is that the playtest DID NOT INCLUDE the use of the DI (Digital Initiative.) There have been a lot of rumors that you need this new online service to play. These rumors are horseshit. We have played for four months with only a Players Handbook, a Dungeon Masters Guide and a Monster Manual. And Nothing else. 4E does not require a computer. Although if everything I hear about it is true, I just might want to keep my laptop with me once it is up and running.

What�s about to follow is a three part story. But it�s not about the details. What they changed here or what isn�t there. After this weekend every gaming forum out there will be flooded with details. This is going to be about the experience. What it is like playing Dungeons & Dragons 4E. This isn�t an article meant just for you junkies who, like myself, can quote the 3.5 rules - chapter and verse. It�s also for those of you who haven�t played in 15 years and secretly, though you might never admit it, wish you could go back and play it again. Or for those out there who haven�t played, but always wanted to. This June, 4th Edition will be unleashed upon the world and it is the perfect time to pick up the hobby or give it a second shot.

Every decade or so Dungeons & Dragons gets a make over. Not just a facelift, but a complete rebooting of the system. What I�ve always loved about these reboots is that each time the designers make sure to integrate, rather than move away from, the innovations of the previous decade. When 2E came out in �89, it took all of the math, the charts and the diversity that had emerged in gaming throughout the 80�s and created one of the most complicated systems to date. When 3E hit the shelves in 2000, it took the revolution of the Vampire White Wolf Storyteller system - the notion of complete character individuality and modular options � and gave it a strong, but much more complicated system to work with. Now, with the revolutions in online gaming, Dungeons & Dragons once again finds itself evolving. From Everquest to the World of Warcraft (and the many other imitators in between and after) comes the notion of perfect balance � the idea that every class, every character, every role in the party, has something to do and never, ever, has to sit on the sidelines.

That is the single most important change to this system. I don�t care what you�re playing, whether the party�s wizard, its cleric, the fighter or its rogue, you will always have the option of doing something useful. You will never be forced (as long as you�re conscious) to simply sit and watch everyone else play because you�ve run out of spells or don�t have a high enough Spell Penetration or lack a weapon property to get through DR. Those days are done. Clerics don�t just hide behind the fighter waiting to stand them up any more. And you can actually successfully run a party without one now. Oh, and the retarded notion of having to rest for the day because the wizard blew through his spells too quickly (even when the rest of the party is full up)? Over and done with. In redesigning the way the character classes work, they�ve managed to eradicate most of the stupid tropes that we �ve all just kind of sighed at and tried to ignore in the context of role playing.

Now, there�s a notion floating around out there that since the goal of 4E was to make the rules simple it means that they�re making them stupid � as to be easier for younger or dumber players to understand. The problem with that, aside from the fact that its probably one of the more arrogant stances out there, is that it belies a complete misunderstand of what 4E is all about. Is it simpler thatn 3.x? Oh hell yes. But it is elegantly simple. Intuitive. It�s like complaining that switching from DOS to Windows was stupid because now anyone could use a computer. When really all it meant was that now you didn�t have to type all that code. Your computer wasn�t dumbed down any. Neither is D&D. It still has all the complication that was in 3.5 � lots of character options, a focus on role playing and tactical combats that are even far more elaborate than before (more on that later.) But all the rules work just like every other rule does. They all make sense.
You pretty much know how a rule works before you look it up because it works just like the rule for this other situation.

The problem with Dungeons & Dragons has always been that everything is a special case. Every spell interacts with the universe differently and has to encounter a thousand different monsters. The soul of 4E is that now all those rules spin in the same direction (if you will) rather than flying off in a hundred different ones. At first glance there are a couple rule changes that will seem silly. The one that crawled up my craw the first session was the fact that diagonal movement counts as just one square. The idea that you could move faster diagonally than you could straight or side to side is retarded. But by the second session I didn�t care. Why? No one EVER had to recount a movement. You could eyeball distances without surprises popping up because you forgot to double count the second diagonal.
Everyone moves and counts and there�s never a hint of second guessing. And when it came down to it, any optimization a player could get out of it was balanced by the monsters having the same thing. Life is just easier this way.

EVERY RULE CHANGE IS LIKE THIS. It all just works. Fluid, intuitive and fun.
And man is it fun. The new tactics are incredible. Anyone who thinks simple rules mean simple combats is in for a shock. Every class has a slate of weird abilities and powers that set them apart from every other class � and when a party learns each other�s tactics and begins to work in concert, watch the :consored: out. Because things get crazy. Tomorrow�s piece will be about what it�s like to exist as a DM in this new tactical environment, because a DM really has to be on his toes. Simple minded DMs are going to get walked all over by a competent group of players.

The new combat system is glorious. There are so many options, so many opportunities to do really fun and incredible things, that the game becomes more about what you want to do in the moment rather than just sitting around waiting for your turn to come up. Combats still take about as long as they did before, you just get to do more during them. While iterative attacks are gone, it never feels like they�re missing. The Fighter is still a sword whirling death machine that gets a lot of chances to drop beasts. Rather than hour and a half 3 round combats, you end up with 10-20 round epic combats that allow everyone to do a variety of things. It no longer seems like a waste of a turn to move, it�ll get back to you momentarily. Sometimes moving two or three rounds in a row really pays off. You no longer have to worry about missing out on any action just because you want to get into position. Which leads to crazier maneuvers and more fun at the table.

And the rule simplicity allows players to really attempt craziness without fear of bizarre rules. My wife, who has played 3.5 with us for years, never felt comfortable with it. She was always concerned that she didn�t know the rules as well as everyone else. While she enjoyed the game (and having friends over to play once a week) she isn�t the type to sit down with the rulebooks and memorize them. She�s geeky enough to live with and love me, but she draws the line in the dirt there. 4E on the other hand has made her a different woman. She�s confident. She loves her character and the rules and tries out all sorts of strange things. She no longer looks at me and asks �Is this right?� Instead, she plows forward, kicking ass and suggesting tactics to the more senior members of the party (like the game designer.) And she asks me repeatedly about whether or not I�ve planned next weeks game. She looks forward to it.

And amid the rule changes comes the racial and class changes. While there�s been much ado about these concepts, the new focus of the game places a lot on the role playing and direct play aspect of race and class. There is a difference between a 6th level Eladrin ranger and an Elf ranger. One gets to reroll one attack every combat and ignore difficult terrain while shifting (making a 5 foot adjust) and the other can teleport 5 squares once a combat.
Let me tell you, there�s a big difference. Dwarves are more than just short guys with low Move rates and a +2 to CON. They make great fighters for a reason, not just because the fluff says so. But at the same time there aren�
t any disadvantages to playing against type. No one will roll their eyes at a Dwarf Rogue or (once they�re out) Half Orc Sorcerers. There are benefits to playing WITH type, but never penalties for against. And that makes a WORLD of difference. Race in 3.X was all about what it did for you at 1st level and what it did to your stats. After that, it rarely mattered. Now it�
s also about what it does for you at 6th or 17th or whatever.

As has been written about, there are three stages of play now. Heroic (lvls 1-10), Paragon (lvls 11-20) and Epic (21-30.) Each stage really is its own beast. Heroic is just that. It�s what most would think of as lvls 1-6 in 3.x. Flight doesn�t exist for the players yet and neither do prestige classes (now called Paragon Paths.) You�re tough but not ungodly so. Paragon really is the middle range where you get to do all sorts of crazy stuff without ever getting too silly. It�s also where you really get to step away from your class and become something new and different. And Epic is just plain silly. I honestly see a lot of folks stopping at paragon � but for those that want to get into truly EPIC level, mythologically powerful gaming, epic will do the trick. With class abilities that begin with phrases like Once per day, when you die� it allows for a whole, bizarre new type of play that actually manages to maintain its consistency. But more about all this in later.

Is there anything I don�t like? Not in the rules. It�s all nitpicky stuff about what gets released when. I miss my Half-Orcs, my sorcerers and kinda wish Druids were around for the initial release. Then there�re a few complaints about the monsters that aren�t out versus those that are (but more of that on day 3.) The rules? They�re damned near perfect. I have zero complaints. I�m pretty confident most folks will feel the same way once they dive in.

4E completely reinvigorated our group. It�s weird, but in creating a new edition, they found the magic that made Dungeons & Dragons what it always was. They�ve taken shovels and dug out the core of what makes the game tick and built a system that focuses on THAT. This feels like 1st edition all over again. It has everyone excited. No one skips or misses games. And when we have to cancel, it becomes a big production of attempting to reschedule before canceling. Seven people in our group and every one of us, no matter how resistant, no matter how angry about a new edition we might have been, have discovered a brand new passion for the game. There�s a lot of negativity out there right now, a lot of anger over this rule change or that rule change or the thought of all those now nigh useless books. But come June that�s going to change. People are going to see first hand how those changes work together to make a superior experience. The game is more fun and less work. And I, for one, am never going back. I am a 4E player. And I can�t wait until you guys are too.

Check in tomorrow for part 2, detailing what it�s like to run a 4E game (the new challenges and pleasures), and Saturday for part 3 going into the Monsters.

Until next time friends, smoke �em if ya got �em.

Massawyrm

Massawyrm wrote:

Hola all. Massawyrm here.

So, now that I�ve got all the basics and the impressions out of the way. Let�s get down to the nitty-gritty. What was it like to run a game in 4E? Pretty freaking awesome. All this talk of simplicity goes out the window once you begin to talk about RUNNING a game. Sure, the rules are simple, but the combat tactics become a whole new ballgame for us DM�s.

But those simple rule changes do make life a hell of a lot easier. During our first game, my intrepid game designer buddy decided to throw a monkey wrench into the works by having his character dive under a table and kick it out from under two guys fighting on top of it. He smiled devilishly, looked at me and asked �How are you gonna rule that�DM?� I glanced at the book for a moment and realized �Strength check against their reflexes.� Huh. He shook his head. Made sense. He made the attack, hit the numbers and all of a sudden he had two opponents prone on the floor. The rules are so straight forward now, on the fly decisions are total cake.

And when slightly more complicated rule calls come into play, don�t worry. The way they�ve set up the rule chapters are simple, clear and pure genius. Everything in the combat chapter is alphabetized. You need the grappling rules? Turn to the G�s. How about Charging? C. And once you�re there, you�ll find that all the major rules are listed as bullet points. Any and every instance for a rule is listed separately in its own bullet point and there aren�t any more of those infamous important rules buried at the end of a paragraph somewhere in the middle of chapter 9.

The biggest change you�re going to notice is that combats are RADICALLY different than they ever have been. The idea of the single, lone monster fight is almost entirely gone. 4E is about mobs. It�s about the Gnoll hunter traveling with two Gnoll warriors and 3 hyenas. It�s about Goblins on Worg-back with a spellcaster bringing up the rear. It�s about ambushes and strange locations. It�s as much about how you�re fighting as it is what you�re fighting. Setting up the fights mechanically is a breeze. Every monster level has an XP total and there�s a simple chart that tells you what XP an encounter of a party size of X level equals. For example a 7th level party of four characters is 1200 experience points. A standard 7th level monster is 300 XP. 4 monsters of the same level equal a standard challenge for the party.

But the biggest revolution is game design for 4E is the fact that the monsters scale PERFECTLY. And so do the PCs. The amount of damage they deal and can take moves up appropriately so multiple monsters of a lower level is EQUAL in damage output and the amount it can take as a single monster of a higher level. A level 1 monster is 100XP. So 12 level 1 monsters would make a suitable encounter for a 7th level party. And yes, for those of you thinking ahead of me, this means it is very simple to mix monsters of different levels. That same party would be equally matched by a level 9 monster (400XP) and 4 level 5 monsters (200XP each.) Doing the MATH of each encounter takes seconds. The challenging part becomes being creative. How exactly will you mix and match your monsters, how will they interact together and where will you place the encounter to make it easier or tougher than the straight numbers would intimate. That right there is where things get really fun for the 4E Dungeon Master. The new rule set allows you to be positively devious without risking the dreaded TPK (total party kill.) 4E rewards the inventive DM by giving him a wide range creatures with a large range of abilities and combat roles, then turns him loose to try and find the nastiest, most dastardly ways to harass his players.

But don�t get too cocky there, Jeeves. The players have all sorts of new tools and tactics to dismantle even the cleverest of traps. Rangers SUCK. Not in the 3.x way in which they�re silly and underpowered. As a DM, you will learn to hate them because with a well placed shot they can drop your back field controller before he gets a chance to really harass your players. The days of taking it easy on the caster or ranged fighter are done and gone. You need to learn quickly how to put pressure on the party�s back field fighters or else you will watch encounter after encounter go down the same way as the tank draws fire while the healer stands him up (while doing damage herself) and the ranger/wizard blasts key opponents out of the picture. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. No. Simple, straight forward encounters comprised of four of the same monster are the way to ruin. The system may encourage complicated tactics and encounters�but clever players will simply require them.

And at the same time, character death isn�t as easy as it used to be. Level 1 characters are front loaded with hit points and abilities, so the old accidental crit by the goblin archer won�t actually kill a player. It�s a slight bit tougher than that now. And it becomes even tougher if there�s a cleric in the group. A strong, smart healer can stand up near death characters several times before they actually risk permanent death. This is going to be a big change for some folks, as the weekly �Who do we have to pay to get raised this week� becomes much less frequent (until Epic, when pretty much everyone can Res for free, on a daily basis. You get abilities that let you do cool things when you die. Swear to Pelor. Epic is weird.)

XP works a lot differently now too. EVERYTHING you do can pretty much get you XP. The big change is that Social Encounters will net you xp. Traps and puzzles are XP based rather than just CRs. And taking a tip from WoW, there are even QUEST REWARDS now. The DMG even includes suggestions on how PC�s can instigate their own quests. These are no longer vague rule suggestions � but are instead hard and fast rules that allow you to really control the rate of level progression without feeling like you�re just lumping XP on the PC�s. At the same time, the new system allows you to take the players from one level to the next without ever having to swing a sword. Not that you�d necessarily want to, but all of a sudden courtly intrigue and puzzle quest heavy campaigns are just as viable XP wise as straight hack and slash. And it�s all based on the same simple mechanics.

And nothing, I repeat, NOTHING, takes away XP anymore. No more level loss. No more XP to fuel abilities or make magic items. Nothing. In fact the book encourages you to award XP to absent players, just so everyone always has the same amount and is playing at the same level. I�ve been doing this, and the players love it. That lame idea of reward for attendance gets outweighed by the reward of everyone being equally useful. Besides, loot for attendance works just as well.

Another great aspect of 4E is the new abilities versus feats delineation. Abilities are something that the player can do ACTIVELY. This includes casting a fireball, using a tricky bow shot or healing another character. Feats on the other hand tend to modify your stats or affect what you can do PASSIVELY. The abilities are all very carefully set up with level dependant damage and scaling. You no longer have the ability to pick and choose from a number of prestige classes (thus no stacking weird combinations of class abilities), and since bonus stacking is very simple and easy these days, the chances of nasty, disgusting, broken combos is going to take a LOT of future bonehead game design and a lot of work on the part of the players. There are plenty of ways to optimize your characters � but straight up broken combos are going to become a thing of the past.

One of the things the rules stress in the DMG is to get used to saying �YES� to players. Let them try weird things and how you should try to find ways to allow it. And the ruleset seems to allow it while remaining incredibly stable. Stable really is the best way to describe it. We�ve spent four months trying to break it and we can�t. There have been a few iterations of rule interpretations that have created oddities, but the playtesting did an incredible job of tweaking those down to make sense. Hell, there was an interpretation of Stealth early on that allowed you to use another player to hide, then jump out and gain COMBAT ADVANTAGE (the 4E version of catching a character flat footed.) This led to a series of comments (and jokes) about a Halfling Rogue in the fighters backpack and ultimately led to a note from the lead developer that read �It shouldn�t work like that. We�ll fix it.� They did.

Remember all that simplicity stuff from part 1 of the review. As a DM you�re about to see why they had to make the rules so simple. It�s because your toolbox just got a lot bigger. And any more complicated and it just wouldn�t work. The great thing is that most of your preparation doesn�t involve books and math. It involves brainstorming and figuring out how to make encounters unique, fun and, yes, devilishly effective.

Then of course you have to figure out loot. Who doesn�t love loot? Well, in 4E there�s a hell of a lot less of it. It also doesn�t affect a lot of the things it used to. But it is still as important as ever. The loot rules pretty much give players a new magic item every level. And the gear gives you new abilities, protection from abilities or simply modifies your attacks or defenses. There are no more stat bump items, nor are you expected to have magic loot at certain levels. The result is a system that allows low or no magic campaigns without a lot of heartache or rule tweaking. Magic items all do COOL things. Armor doesn�t just protect you, it also gives you things to do in combat. Items you wear give you options, not bumps. And the abilities things grant make them useful for levels beyond what loot used to. There are items I can imagine being just as useful at level 20 as it was at level 4. The overall result of all of these loot changes is a system more about fantasy, character and story than it is about Min/Maxing. There�s a lot more �This is the cloak given to me by Queen Soandso and a lot less �Dude, why are you still wearing that +2 Periapt of Wisdom. You�re level 12 now.�

Oh yeah. And there�s no such thing as a magic item shop anymore. Which is fine, because they�ve finally made Crafting rules that actually make sense and don�t require calculus or the loss of XP. If you want a certain magic item, learn how to make it, and spend the gold to make it. Crafting magic items is what the gold cost is for now a days.

All in all, the game plays and runs very differently than before. It still has that classic D&D feel, but your focus as a game runner really is going in new and exciting directions. You�ll send most of your time dreaming things up rather than tallying things up. And it makes all the difference.

Tune in tomorrow for the third and final installment of this review in which I talk about the new monster manual, how monster work and my few (nit picky) gripes about the new system.

Until next time friends, smoke �em if ya got �em.

Massawyrm

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erwin

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Joined: 06 Dec 2006

Posts: 2932

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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:43 am Post subject:

bluemage55 of DF wrote:

Some more updates from EnWorld are up:

EnWorld wrote:

- Passive skills like Pereption and Insight take no actions (not a surprise), but actively searching or sensing motives is a Standard Action.

- Temporary Hit Points, such as those gained by the Paladin's bolstering strike, CAN exceed a character's max Hit Points. However, you can only have 1 pool of temporary HP at a time. If you have 3 temporary HP, and then use an ability to get 5 temporary HP, you have 5 extra, not 8.

- Normal Cover gives enemies a flat -2 penalty on attack rolls, and can prevent adjacent foes from "threatening" (for opportunity attack purposes). Total Cover (such as firing through an arrow slit) gives enemies a -5 penalty.

- Crawling is a move action. While crawling, a character moves at half its normal speed, and provokes opportunity attacks from adjacent enemies.

- When prone, characters' attacks suffer a -2 penalty.

- When Dazed, a character may take only 1 action, instead of the usual suite of Standard, Move, Minor, and Free.

- Skeletons no longer have Damage Reduction for certain kinds of weapons. Swords hurt them as much as maces and hammers.

- Everything has a consitution score.

- Spiked chains appeared in the preview adventure I played, and the DM confirmed that, as far as he knew, they were in the actual game.

- Threatening Reach ( the kind that provokes opportunity attacks if crossed, essentially reach as it was in 3.x) is a property of the monster or character, not a property of weapons. Human guards with halberds might not have threatening reach (and didn't, when we fought them), but a different monster wielding the same weapon might.

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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:29 am Post subject:

The PHB Tiefling Page
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erwin

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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:57 am Post subject:

What's bloodied foes? Does it mean enemies which already took damage?
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject:

Bloodied-A creature below half hp is bloodied.

Lots of powers do stronger stuff VS bloodied foes, ala the ToB Finishing Move Maneuver.
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the-bumper-car

Old Dragon

Joined: 30 Aug 2007

Posts: 577

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject:

The Warlord Class

Quote:

Number One: Directing Damage

Don't play the warlord if your only idea of a good time is personally wreaking havoc on your foes. I love the name of the warlord class. I supported using the name instead of the original "marshal" name we'd drafted from 3rd Edition. But some players' first impression on hearing the name "warlord" is that the class must be tougher than all the other characters, the nastiest battlefield hack-and-slasher in the game. The warlord can hold his own in melee and will frequently save the day thanks to outright combat mojo, but every warlord is more effective as a commander than as a lone hero.

For example, the warlord's 1st-level daily attack power, pin the foe, does as much damage as the best of the fighter's 1st-level daily attack powers, brute strike. Pin the foe's advantage is that it locks down the target's movement whether the attack hits or misses. This pin effect only functions if the warlord has allies with him to team against the enemy. So the power might be a big enough hit to slay the enemy outright. But against an extremely tough foe, or when pin the foe misses, the power creates a tactical advantage that depends on teamwork between multiple party members to keep the target from shifting freely around the battlefield.

At that stage, with an enemy who is pinned and fighting to the last breath, the warlord isn't as likely to be the party member who gets in the killing blow. Take a look at the fighter's brute strike power again. While the warlord's cool 1st-level daily exploit sets up a teamwork benefit, brute strike has the keyword "Reliable," meaning that the power isn't expended if the attack misses. Eventually, as long as the fighter is alive to swing, that brute strike is going to connect -- the warlord doesn't have that certainty. If you're the player who always wants to be finisher, the party's sword-wielding ass-kicker, play a rogue, ranger, or a fighter who uses two-handed weapons.

Pin the Foe Warlord Attack 1
No matter where your foe turns, one of your allies is waiting for him.
Daily
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, the target cannot shift if at least two of your allies (or you and one ally) are adjacent to it.

Brute Strike Fighter Attack 1
You shatter armor and bone with a ringing blow.
Daily
Martial, Reliable, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Number Two: Play Well with Others

This is the shiny-happy side of the previous commandment. Fourth edition has fundamentally selfish classes that care only about their own combat tricks and successes. Fourth edition also has extremely unselfish classes, and that's where the warlord fits in. Different players at the table are likely to take a different approach to the combat encounter portion of the game. If you enjoy cooperative games like Reiner Knezia's Lord of the Rings boardgame or Shadows over Camelot, you're much more likely to enjoy playing a warlord. For example, your warlord can provide the entire party with an extra movement option with a power such as white raven onslaught.

During the early stages of design, we often used a sports metaphor, casting the warlord as the quarterback. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure quarterback is the right analogy -- after all, quarterbacks tend to land a huge percentage of the glory, MVP awards, and Hollywood girlfriends! Basketball point guard may be a more apt comparison. Not every combat depends on the warlord/point guard, but they distribute benefits the rest of the party thrives on. Without the warlord's assists, the party is often left only to its own devices, which might not be enough to triumph in a given encounter. You can operate without a warlord, but when you get to the playoffs against powerful competition, parties that don't have a warlord (or possibly some other to-be-designed tactical leader) have a rougher time of it. If you feel a glow of accomplishment when your assists combine with your attacks' damage to help the party succeed, the warlord is for you.

White Raven Onslaught Warlord Attack 1
You lead the way with a powerful attack, using your success to create an opportunity for one of your allies. Each of your comrades in turn seizes on your example and begins to display true teamwork.
Daily
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you slide an adjacent ally 1 square. Until the end of the encounter, whenever you or an ally within 10 squares of you makes a successful attack, the attacker slides an adjacent ally 1 square.
Miss: Choose one ally within 10 squares. Until the end of the encounter, the ally slides an adjacent ally 1 square after making a successful attack.

Number Three: Order Up!

If you often find yourself suggesting a tactical course of action to your fellow players, the warlord might be for you. Back when we designed the original version of the marshal class for the Miniatures Handbook, the marshal owed a good deal to the vision and example of Skaff Elias. Skaff is famous for having excellent suggestions for what other players should be doing with their turns. The warlord class, as a descendant of the marshal, is partly an exercise in turning that sometimes annoying habit into a positive contribution that will be appreciated by other players, rather than resented.

Iron dragon charge is an example of how we're trying to make this type of guidance a welcome addition to another character's glory. Getting to charge as an immediate reaction when it's not your turn is a fantastic addition to any melee character's life, not an onerous order that forces your ally to spend their turn following your commands. Few players complain when the warlord in the party uses a well-timed exploit to give their PC a charge, another basic attack, or the chance to shift away from encroaching foes. Ditto for warlord powers that simultaneously allow the warlord to attack and inspire his allies to attempt a saving throw or recover hit points.

The warlord doesn't have unlimited license to boss other players around. Taken to extremes, that style of gameplay is still annoying. But if you're the type of player who loves studying tactical situations and trying to puzzle out the best way to get everyone through alive, the warlord provides roleplaying hooks and flexible powers to support your play style in a way that will endear you to your allies.

Iron Dragon Charge Warlord Attack 9
Like a rampaging iron dragon, you hurl yourself at your adversary, landing a terrific blow that inspires your allies to charge as well.
Daily
Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Special: You must charge as part of this attack.
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage.
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, as an immediate reaction, an ally of your choice within 5 squares of you can charge a target that you charge.

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the-bumper-car

Old Dragon

Joined: 30 Aug 2007

Posts: 577

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject:

Sorry for the double-post, but I liked this so much I thought this should get posted, too.

Death and Dying

Quote:

or �How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Negative Hit Points�

by Andy Collins

Welcome to Design & Development, your primary source of D&D 4th Edition insights and revelations! While you're here, keep in mind that the game is still in a state of flux, as refinements are made by our design and development staff. You�re getting a look behind the curtain at game design in progress, so enjoy, and feel free to send your comments to dndinsider@wizards.com.

Character death is one of the ultimate threats in any RPG, and D&D is no exception. Besides the obvious, um, �inconveniences� that death might cause your character and his allies in both the short and long term�inconveniences which vary based on your level, the current situation, and of course your attachment to that particular character�death is a mark of failure. In some hard-to-explain but very real way, a dead character symbolizes that you just �lost� at D&D. That can prove a bitter pill for many players, and in my experience is even more frustrating than paying for a resurrection.
What We Hated

Early in the design process, Rob, James, and I identified a number of ways that we were unsatisified with D&D�s current death and dying rules. For example, we strongly disliked the inability of 3rd Edition D&D�s negative-hit-point model to deal with combat at higher levels�once the monsters are reliably dealing 15 or 20 points of damage with each attack, the chance of a character going straight from �alive and kicking� to �time to go through his pockets for loose change� was exceedingly high; effectively, the -1 to -9 �dying� range was meaningless. Ask any high-level fighter whether he�d prefer the second-to-last attack from a monster to leave him at 1 hp or -1 hp; I�d put odds on unconsciousness, and how lame is that?

Among other problems, this also meant that characters effectively had no way to �lose� a combat except by being killed. This removes a lot of dramatic possibilities for the story�for instance, the classic scene of the characters being captured and thrown in a cell from which they have to escape using only their wits and a pack of chewing gum (or whatever).

On top of all that, the game added a complex state of being at exactly 0 hp, which wasn�t quite like being fully capable but also wasn�t quite dying. Honestly, though, how often does any character actually get reduced to exactly 0 hp? Why did the game need a condition that existed at exactly one spot on the big, broad range of hit point possibilities?
What We Wanted

We wanted a death and dying system that added fun and tension at the table, scaled well to any level of play, and created the threat of PC mortality (without delivering on that threat as often as 3rd Edition did).

Characters had to feel that death was a possibility in order for combat to feel meaningful. If it seems impossible to be killed, much of the tension of combat disappears. However, if the majority of combats result in death (as is the case for a lot of high-level play in previous editions), the game is forced to reclassify death as a trivial obstacle in order to remain playable. 3rd Edition accomplished this with popular spells such as close wounds, delay death, and revivify�mandatory staples of any high-level cleric�s arsenal due purely to the commonality of death. But that removes the tension, and now what�s the point of death at all?

The system also had to be simple to remember and adjudicate at the table. Being able to keep the rule in your head is important, because you don�t want to be bogging the game down flipping through a book when a character is clinging to life by a thread�that should be high-tension time, not slowdown time!

Finally, it had to be believable within the heroic-fantasy milieu of D&D. (Believability isn�t the same thing as realism�an error which has ruined more games than I can count.) Put another way, it had to feel like D&D�one of those tricky �you know it when you see it� things.
What We Did About It

Back in 2005, this was obviously a much lower priority than, say, creating the new model for how classes and races worked, so we put it on the back burner to simmer. As the months passed, we and other designers proposed various models that tried to solve the conundrums set out above, varying from exceedingly abstract to witheringly simulationist. We playtested every model, from death tracks to life points, each time learning something different about what worked or didn�t work. A few times, we even temporarily settled on a solution, claiming that the playtesters only needed time to get used to our radical new ideas.

Thankfully, our awakening came well before we released the game (or even before widescale playtesting began, for that matter). Despite some quite elegant concepts, none of our radical new ideas met all the criteria necessary, including simplicity, playability, fun, and believability.

The system had to be at least as simple to remember and at least as easy to play as what already existed. For all their other flaws, negative hit points are pretty easy to use, and they work well with the existing hit-point system.

It had to be at least as much fun as what already existed, and it had to be at least as believable as what already existed. In ideal situations, negative hit points create fun tension at the table, and they�re reasonably believable, at least within the heroic fantasy milieu of D&D, where characters are supposed to get the stuffing beaten out of them on a regular basis without serious consequences.

Every one of our new ideas failed to meet at least one of those criteria. Maybe they were playable but too abstract to feel fun or believable, or they were believable but too complicated to remember. Nothing worked, and I admit we experienced a couple of freak-out moments behind closed doors.
The Breakthrough

Eventually we got it through our heads that there wasn�t a radical new game mechanic just waiting to be discovered that would revolutionize the narrow window between life and death in D&D. What we really needed to do was just widen the window, reframe it, and maybe put in an extra pane for insulation. (OK, that analogy went off the tracks, but its heart was in the right place.)

Characters still use a negative hit point threshold to determine when they move from �unconscious and dying� to �all-the-way-dead,� but now that threshold scales with their level (or more specifically, with their hit point total). A character with 30 hit points (such as a low-level cleric) dies when he reaches -15 hit points, while the 15th-level fighter with 120 hp isn�t killed until he�s reduced to -60 hit points.

That may seem like an unreachable number, but it�s important to remember that monsters, like characters, aren�t piling on as many attacks on their turn as in 3rd Edition. At 15th level, that fighter might face a tough brute capable of dishing out 25 or 30 points of damage with its best attack� or nearly twice that on a crit. The threat of �alive-to-negative-everything� on a single hit remains in play, but it�s much less common than in the previous edition. That puts that bit of tension back where it belongs.

The new system also retains the �unconscious character bleeding out� concept, but for obvious reasons speeds it along a bit. (There�s not really any tension watching that 15th-level fighter bleed out at a rate of 1 hp per round for 30 or 40 rounds.) Thanks to some clever abstractions, the new system also removes the predictability of the current death timer. (�OK, Regdar�s at -2 hp, so we have 8 rounds to get to him. Yawn� time for a nap.�)

It�s also less costly to bring dying characters back into the fight now�there�s no �negative hit point tax� that you have to pay out of the healing delivered by your cure serious wounds prayer. That helps ensure that a character who was healed from unconsciousness isn�t in an immediate threat of going right back there (and you�ll never again have the �I fed Jozan a potion of healing but he�s still at negative hit points� disappointment).

Monsters don�t need or use this system unless the DM has special reason to do so. A monster at 0 hp is dead, and you don�t have to worry about wandering around the battlefield stabbing all your unconscious foes. (I�m sure my table isn�t the only place that happens.) We�ve talked elsewhere about some of the bogus parallelism that can lead to bad game design�such as all monsters having to follow character creation rules, even though they�re supposed to be foes to kill, not player characters�this is just another example of the game escaping that trap. Sure, a DM can decide for dramatic reasons that a notable NPC or monster might linger on after being defeated. Maybe a dying enemy survives to deliver a final warning or curse before expiring, or at the end of a fight the PCs discover a bloody trail leading away from where the evil warlock fell, but those will be significant, story-based exceptions to the norm.

Oh, and speaking of zero hit points? You�re unconscious and dying, just like every new player expects it should be. It�s not as harsh as the �dead at 0 hp� rule of the original D&D game, but it�s still not a place you want to be for long!
Try It Now!

If you want to try out a version of this system in your current game, try the following house rule. It�s not quite the 4th Edition system, but it should give you an idea of how it�ll feel.

1) At 0 hp or less, you fall unconscious and are dying.
Any damage dealt to a dying character is applied normally, and might kill him if it reduces his hit points far enough (see #2).

2) Characters die when their negative hit point total reaches -10 or one-quarter of their full normal hit points, whichever is a larger value.
This is less than a 4th Edition character would have, but each monster attack is dealing a smaller fraction of the character�s total hit points, so it should be reasonable. If it feels too small, increase it to one-third full normal hit points and try again.

3) If you�re dying at the end of your turn, roll 1d20.
Lower than 10: You get worse. If you get this result three times before you are healed or stabilized (as per the Heal skill), you die.
10-19: No change.
20: You get better! You wake up with hit points equal to one-quarter your full normal hit points.

4) If a character with negative hit points receives healing, he returns to 0 hp before any healing is applied.
In other words, he�ll wake up again with hit points equal to the healing provided by the effect�a cure light wounds spell for 7 hp will bring any dying character back to 7 hp, no matter what his negative hit point total had reached.)

5) A dying character who�s been stabilized (via the Heal skill) doesn�t roll a d20 at the end of his turn unless he takes more damage.

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Can I be the Avenger of Atheism?

He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

Cool. Warlord gets a maneuver called, "White Raven Onslaught"! Nine Swords ftw!!
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