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supertotoy

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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject:

yeah... I think you're right... but sometimes, it fun to play without having too many penalties...
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Xtian

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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject:

Reducing LA variant could work.

And I am still brewing something about the shields. In SC, shields take maximum damage whether the damage is concussive or explosive type.
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supertotoy

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Posts: 413

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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject:

Dark Templars still have shields, and could've developed them their own way, much like they've developed a modification of psi-blade technology.

Xtian wrote:

And I am still brewing something about the shields. In SC, shields take maximum damage whether the damage is concussive or explosive type.

Exactly my idea, as I've written about the shields earlier, and a repost for your review and possible modification:

supertotoy wrote:

To make it closer to the RTS-version, then I think all shields should be technology based. All Protoss power suits have them built-in, thus with a blasting of an EMP shockwave, they would be disabled. Protoss power suits' shields cannot be activated by just anyone, available only to those with psionic ability. The shields "feed" on psionic power, so when an EMP blast hits a unit with the power suit, it'll malfunction and would drain off some power points off its wearer. That could explain the fact that EMP shockwaves drain both energy and shield off a Protoss unit.

Now, as the power suit is made only for the Protoss' anatomy, I think most, if not all, power suits available in the forges are for Protoss only. Though, the could make one fit for another race, which is highly unlikely.

I think Protoss classes could toughen up their shields, at the cost of permanently "losing" power points while in the suit. These power points cannot be regenerated in anyway while in their suits, and if they chose to deactivate them, it will take sometime for the wearer to recover power points lost by this method.

and,

Quote:

1. Plasma shields take maximum damage regardless of damage type. Thus, with the Marine's Gauss Rifle (2d12), it automatically takes 24 damage. If the damage that would be incurred would be greater than the shield's remaining HP, then the difference is dealt directly to the character's HP (DR applies).

2. Protoss' Plasma Shields on Personnel Armor start at 20 HP by default. However, any psionic character wearing armor with Plasma shields also gain these powers:

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Xtian

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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject:

I still like to think the plasma shields are racial traits that can be duplicated by technology. Dark templars draw energy from the void to power their psionic powers, I assume that includes their plasma shields and warp blades.

Quote:

I think on the damage that would reduce the shield points to zero, there should be a roll. On your given example, if the shield was only 10 hp, the protoss would get automatic 14 damage. There should be a roll. Let's assume that the roll result of 2d12 was 8. The shield would absorb 10 damage (as if maximized) then the protoss would get no damage (8 rolled damage - 10 shield points). On your mechanics, some damage would be amplified.
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A druid on rogue:
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Xtian

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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject:

I am brewing of an idea to reduce LA by putting in racial hd.

But I never saw a protoss commoner. Sad

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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
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supertotoy

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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:05 am Post subject:

Those were my ideas before they were refined. I think the last condition was good.

If the shield hitpoints would be reduced to 0 by damage (shields take maximum damage) from any source, a roll should be made to determine the damage. If the shields hit points is lower than the rolled damage, excess damage would be dealt to the character's HP instead (DR applies).

Now about the shield as a racial trait... it's still better if they're technology based, or included as a power (see Augment Shield Capacity and Toughen Plasma Binding) when in a Dark Templar PrC...

Zeratul has armor... if you try to look in his wallpaper in SC2. The gold straps wrapped around his body is armor, as in this picture:

Though Dark Templars don't need them much as they are invisible anyway.

Just wait... I'll be making a Dark Templar PrC, a compliment to the Zealot AdvC but would actually have 15 levels, so that it will equal the might of a High Templar PrC that I'm also developing, that could be taken by any character with Protoss AdvC (Khala-based)
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Last edited by supertotoy on Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:56 pm; edited 6 times in total

supertotoy

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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:24 am Post subject:

Protoss weapons... I think they're between Progress 7 and 8 gear (Source: SRD d20 Future).

Tentative Protoss Weapon:

Psiblade (ψ)
A potent weapon used by the Khala's armies, the Psiblade is the favorite melee weapon of the Protoss. It is a small metal gauntlet that, activated with psionics, generates a solid beam of plasma contained by a gravity-induced force field.

Damage: 2d8
Critical: 19-20, x2
Size: Medium
Weight: 2 lbs.

ψ A character should have at least a reserve of 2 power points to be able to wield this weapon.
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Last edited by supertotoy on Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:05 pm; edited 2 times in total

supertotoy

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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I am brewing of an idea to reduce LA by putting in racial hd.

That'd be good... include knowledge (khala) as one their racial skills to include them in Protoss AdvC reqs. (see Zealot AdvC). Again, in the Path of Ascension, they don't start as Templar immediately, they start as Khalai, and they're not part of the Khalai immediately but rather "recruited", on which your Racial HD can be the equivalent of Ordinaries in modern...
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Revan

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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject:

supertotoy wrote:

Zeratul has armor... if you try to look in his wallpaper in SC2. The gold straps wrapped around his body is armor, as in this picture:

Though Dark Templars don't need them much as they are invisible anyway.

Decorative metal jewelry does not always equal armor.
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Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:25 am Post subject:

Quote:

Now about the shield as a racial trait... it's still better if they're technology based,

No. It is not which is better or not. Let us stick on what is true.

I still stick to plasma shields as racial abilities that protoss technology was able to duplicate. The pictures of Zeratul below depict him as having no armor.

Personally, I don't want, as much as possible, to rely to pictures as basis.

On racial HD thingie, I am split, 70-30, in favor of no racial HD.
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:31 am Post subject:

On the zealot class.

I think BAB must be good.

Good save should be reflex if you are giving them evasion. All classes/prestige classes that have evasion have good reflex save progression, if I am not mistaken.

Any reasons why a zealot is an advanced class?
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

boy_bakal

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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:37 am Post subject:

Probly because we're using d20 modern as a base. I think the idea is that any character of any race can be an X hero, and then the races really only come into play in selecting AdvC's.
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Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:54 am Post subject:

Ok. I just find that system too limiting.
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A druid on rogue:
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boy_bakal

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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:33 am Post subject:

true, but it's less work than, say, using a DnD-like framework and making up classes from scratch. i mean we're all putting a lot of effort into this, but we do have to make a few compromises...
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Xtian

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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:46 am Post subject:

Making classes from scratch is not that hard if you have a basis.

And as I said, using mix of DnD and Modern is better since it won't be too limiting.
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

Xtian

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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:41 am Post subject:

My take on a zealot as a 20 level basic class.

Race: Protoss
HD: d8
Class Skills: Climb, Craft (Any), Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge(relevant), Survival
Skill points: 2+int
Base attack bonus: Good
Saves: Reflex Good
Class defence bonus: Class level*3/5 +1
Reputation bonus: +1 starting at fifth level then additional +1 at every four levels.
Action Points: The Zealot gains a number of action points equal to 6 + one-half her character level, rounded down, every time she attains a new level in this class.

1 Psi-blade Proficiency, Two-weapon fighting
2 Speed bonus +10
3 Uncanny Dodge
4 Psi-blade (5)
5 Bonus feat
6 Improved Two-weapon fighting
7 Speed bonus +20
8 Improved Uncanny Dodge
9 Bonus feat, Psi-blade (10)
10 Flurry of Strikes
11 Greater Two-weapon fighting
12 Speed bonus +30
13 Bonus feat
14 Initiative bonus +2, Psi-blade (15)
15 Speed bonus +50
16 Supreme Two-weapon fighting
17 Bonus feat, Speed bonus +50
18 Initiative bonus +4
19 Psi-blade (20)
20 Ultimate two-weapon fighting

Psi-blade proficiency: At level 1, a zealot gains psi-blade proficiency as a bonus feat.

Two-weapon fighting: As long as a zealot uses psi-blade as weapons, he gains two-weapon fighting at level 1. At level 6, he gains improved two-weapon fighting. At level 11, he gains greater-two weapon fighting. At level 16, he gains superior two-weapon fighting as a bonus feat. He gains the benefit even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Furthermore, there is no off-hand penalty to damage which means the off hand weapon gains full strength bonus to damage instead of half.

Speed bonus (Ex): At level 2, advances in technology enhance his leg to allow him to move faster. He gains a 10ft increase on his land speed. At every five levels, this speed increases by additional 10 ft.

Uncanny dodge (Ex): a zealot retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a zealot already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Psi-blade (Ex): A zealots psi-blade ignores up to 5 points of DR as long as the DR can be bypassed by physical source (adamantine, iron, slashing, piercing, etc). At every five levels after, this value increases by five.

Bonus feat: At fifth level and every four levels afterwards, a zealot gains bonus feat. The bonus feat must be from the following list and must meet the prerequiresites: improved initiative, weapon focus (psi-blade), weapon specialization (psi-blade), greater weapon focus (psi-blade), greater weapon specialization (psi-blade), improved critical (psi-blade), dodge, mobility, spring attack, endurance, die hard, two-weapon defence, improved two-weapon defence, greater two-weapon defence, alertness.

Improved uncanny dodge (Ex):At 8th level and higher, a zealot can no longer be flanked. Yadda yadda. Same as barbarian uncanny dodge.

Flurry of strikes (Ex): A zealot can make an additional attacks at his highest attack bonus with each hand but all attacks suffer at -2 penalty to attack roll this round. A zealot may choose at gain another pair of attacks at his full attack bonus but all attacks suffer at additional -2 penalty (-4 total). A zealot can gain an additional pair of attack for every 5 points of his base attack bonus.

Initiative bonus (Ex): At level 14, a zealot gains a +2 bonus to initiative checks. This Increase to +4 at level 18.

Ultimate two-weapon fighting (Ex): At level 20, a zealot achieves his perfection in fighting with psi-blades. Whenever a zealot makes a single attack which does not allow to use two-weapon fighting, he may make it instead a two-weapon attack. For example a provocation of attack of opportunity would allow to make a zealot two attacks with his psi-blades. A spring attack will allow him to attack both with his psi-blades. Any feats that allow him to make additional attacks (improved/greater combat reflexes, bounding/rapid assault) allows that zealot to make another attack with his another psi-blade, with the same attack bonus. Further more, he no longer receives penalty with two-weapon fighting and the bonus to damage with both of his psi-blades is 1.5 x strength bonus instead of full strength with both hands.

____________________________
Will make a sample character.
Will make changes.
Comments? Suggestions?
__________
Edit:
removed: Blur (Ex): 3/day as a free action, a zealot may go under the effect of blur for 1 round.
decreased HD
decreased skill points
change fortitude save progression to bad
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

Xtian

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:52 am Post subject:

Protoss Zealot 6
Medium Aberration
Hit Dice: 6d8+6 (33 hp), Shield Points: 6d12-6 (33 sp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 22 (+2 Dex, +2 natural, +4 class defence, +4 protoss armor), touch 16, flat-footed 20
Base Att/Grapple: +6/+8
Attack: Psi-blade +10 melee (2d8+2/19-20)
Full Attack: Psi-blade +8/+3 melee (2d8+2/19-20); and Psi-blade +8/+3 melee (2d8+2/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: two-weapon fighting
Special Qualities: Telepathy, plasma shields, immunity to sleep, naturally psionic, superior low-light vision, darkvision 60 ft, aberration traits, uncanny dodge, Psi-blade (5), Fast movements 10ft.
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +2
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills: Craft +10, Intimidate +8, Jump +11, Survival +9
Feats: two-weapon fighting (b), exotic weapon proficiency (psi-blades) (b), weapon focus (psi-blade) (b), greater weapon focus (psi-blade), dodge, mobility
Environment: Aiur
Challenge Rating: 8
Advancement: by class levels
Level Adjustment: +2
_________________
solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

supertotoy

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject:

I don't oppose your staying true to the RTS Zealot. Actually, your version of the Protoss race is very commendable and very accurate, with the proper research to back it up.

However, methinks that your Zealot is very limited -- an excellent Two-weapon fighter, but that's about it. What I want to see is a Zealot that does more than wield psi-blades, and that's why I've come up with a "creative" solution, rather than a mechanical translation. Besides, we will create new weapons for the Protoss that would be outside the RTS already. How come only Terrans can have all the goods here, with Revan supplying all the toys? A Marine can dish out damage that could make a quick work of shields, full damage or no. When in the RTS version, it's 100 shields against the puny 8 damage of the Marine.

Actually, there are plasma shields available in the modern SRD. However, they're not at all in flavor with the plasma shields of SC. That's why, after a mathematical computation, I decided that the shields should have relatively high HP. Another reason I've come up with that shield version is the effect of the EMP shockwave on Protoss units (already explained). I don't want the EMP shockwave to be a psionic/magical effect. Instead of going through the motions on why the EMP should drain the energy of a High Templar (worth a long debate), I tried to give the simplest explanation possible: gadgets are disabled in an EMP blast.
So there. Smile

On another note:
High Templars are Zealots before they are High Templars. That's why I've also put some psionics in there, one of the greatest reasons I have to put them on average BAB. Besides, they have those abilities to back up their combat sans psionics. At level 10, Zeal provides them with a +10 to attack and +8 to damage (thanks to Master of Aiur's Blades) and a +2 to all saves (+4 to Reflex, due to Leg Enhacements, almost making them have a good save on that area) all with no penalty! Your stand on the good reflex for the Zealot is valid. They have digitigrade legs anyway, like cats or dogs. I was holding back because of possible balance issues, considering different power levels for the RTS and d20.
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Xtian

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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I don't oppose your staying true to the RTS Zealot. Actually, your version of the Protoss race is very commendable and very accurate, with the proper research to back it up.

Thanks!

Quote:

However, methinks that your Zealot is very limited -- an excellent Two-weapon fighter, but that's about it. What I want to see is a Zealot that does more than wield psi-blades, and that's why I've come up with a "creative" solution, rather than a mechanical translation.

Well, because a zealot is really limited as a two-weapon fighter?

Quote:

Besides, we will create new weapons for the Protoss that would be outside the RTS already.

I want basis for this new weapons. And also, the reason it is like RTS because I want my zealot to have a "zealoty" feeling.

Quote:

gadgets are disabled in an EMP blast.

How about non-gadgets? Zerg queens and defilers do not use gadgets and yet their energies are drained when exposed to the blast.

Quote:

High Templars are Zealots before they are High Templars.

starcraft wiki wrote:

Zealots are the lowest form of Khalai followers, although some choose to remain at this rank willingly to experience combat more often. High Templar are more disciplined and have forgone the military training of the Zealot to focus and hone their psionic powers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templar_Caste
A zealot can become a high templar but being a zealot is not a prerequisite.

Quote:

I was holding back because of possible balance issues, considering different power levels for the RTS and d20.

Do not hold back. Put them in their proper power level. If it takes 100 marines to bring down a zealot them put them at that power level. There is a reason why only the most experienced adventurers fight a great wyrm dragon. Wink

supertotoy

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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject:

Another note Xtian: Protoss don't eat too... Very Happy

And good point on the energy drain too...
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Xtian

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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject:

supertotoy wrote:

Another note Xtian: Protoss don't eat too... Very Happy

Ok then.

supertotoy

Old Dragon

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Posts: 413

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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject:

Found this stuff on the net... Good idea though. look like I want to put this stuff too:

Alien Anatomy (Ex): Because of radically different anatomy, non-Zerg take a -4 penalty when confirming critical hits against a Zerg.

I think this is good to be on Protoss too... but Xtian should decide if he will also include this. It's his Protoss that I subscribe to anyway... Very Happy

Another one:
Self-Adaptable: Zerg do not require atmosphere to breathe. Zerg capable of flight can fly in a vacuum at 1/2 their normal flight speed. Zerg are not affected by nonstandard gravity between 1/2G and 5G.

...because they've assimilated the Overlord's ancestors into the Swarm (Source: Starcraft Manual)

"Drawn by this beacon, they (Overlord's ancestors) were quickly assimilated by the swarm. The inclusion of super-dense hides and the ability to exist in a vacuum bolstered the genetic pool of the swarm. Soon the Zerg warriors were conditioned to survive the harshness of space."
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supertotoy

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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject:

Khashilar
Medium Aberration
Protoss Fast Hero 4/Zealot 2

HD: 6d8+12 (39 HP)
SP: 6d12+6 (45 SP)
PP: 12
Initiative: +3 (Dex +1, Battle Fervor +2)
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 24 or 25 in melee (+1 Dex, +2 Natural, +4 Protoss Armor [MG], +7 Class Defense Bonus, +1 Dodge [only works with melee]), touch 18 (or 19 in melee), flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+6
Attack: Psiblade +7 melee (2d8+2/19-20), with Zeal +11 melee (2d8+6)
Full Attack: Psiblade +5 melee (2d8+2/19-20) and Psiblade +5 melee (2d8+1/19-20), with Zeal +9 melee (2d8+6/19-20) and +9 melee (2d8+5/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Two-Weapon Fighting
Special Qualities: Battle Fervor, Zeal, Increased Speed, Improved Increased Speed
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +3
Reputation: +2
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 8
Skills: Knowledge (civics) +5, Knowledge (theology and philosophy) +5, Tumble +6, Craft (mechanical) +4, Balance +5
Feats: Archaic Weapons Proficiency, Weapon Focus (Psiblade), Two-Weapon Fighting, Defensive Martial Arts
Environment: Aiur
CR: 8
Advancement: By class levels
Level Adjustment: +2
---------------------------------------------------------
Sample Protoss Zealot with the Fast Hero as the base. Used the non-elite array for stats. Also used the Plasma Shields of Xtian added with my own shield concept which seem to work very well... With Plasma shield technology and Boost Armor (Protoss High Grade Armor), this Zealot would be very formidable...
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Xtian

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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:38 am Post subject:

Supertotoy, what array and racial modifiers did you use on your sample characteR?
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

supertotoy

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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject:

I've used the non-elite array for my stats, and racial modifiers based on your take on the Protoss. Will post the tough hero based Zealot sometime in the near future... Back to work, ladies and gentlemen... Very Happy

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Xtian

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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:55 am Post subject:

supertotoy wrote:

I don't agree with the alien anatomy. D&D-wise, aberrations, creatures with bizarre alien anatomies, are as susceptible to critical hits as other creatures.

On flying in vacuum, how do you propel in a vaccuum? ... How the hell does the zerg travel from planet to planet? Shocked

supertotoy

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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:28 am Post subject:

Remember the cinematic of Brood War? Where the Mutalisks chased down the UED's last fleet? That's where it is applicable. Flight and piloting won't be used much though, but gravity will play a big role especially if your campaigning on different planets.

Zerg use a form of warp drive for interplanetary travel considering the distance of planets in the Koprulu Sector...
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject:

Methinks the Overmind uses some form of psionic gate... And that is kerrigan's job now, whose an accomplished psionic power herself.

I think these things are mostly flavor, though, and further discussion should be done only after we flesh out the more character-developed rules.
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supertotoy

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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject:

@BJ:
Well, if you base it in one of the missions of the Zerg (Original, mission II if I'm correct), the Overmind specifically stated that they travel using a form of Warp Drive. The Zerg have technology too, but it's much more... organic. If we incorporate your psionic gate theory, then that may just mean that their Warp Drives are powered by psionics..

@Xtian:
I believe that the Dark Templar have a different racial trait than normal Protoss:

Quote:

Struggling to adapt to their harsh and nearly lightless environment, the Rogue Tribes altered their skills and even their biology to cope

Something like elven variants...

And, you were right about plasma shields, they can be made by a protoss without armor, but can be simulated by technology. However, they were not racial traits. It was a psionic power manifested by a protoss warrior.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Shields wrote:

During the Aeon of Strife, Protoss warriors used focused psionic energy to surround themselves in impregnable energy shields. Over time, Conclave scholars and Templar sages learned to reproduce the energy shield using induced psi-field generators, which allowed even the smallest robotic machine to surround itself with a protective field.

*italics were provided by me.
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Last edited by supertotoy on Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:56 pm; edited 4 times in total

supertotoy

Old Dragon

Joined: 23 Mar 2007

Posts: 413

Location: Limbo

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject:

Found more on Starcraft Wiki about Dark Templars:

The Shadow Walk
The Shadow Walk is an element of Dark Templar culture that requires all protoss to pass it before officially becoming a Dark Templar. It requires the aspirant to walk down a valley and keep only to the shadows, out of which Dark Templar will spring out unexpectedly to assault him/her. Once making it to the end of the valley without being incapitated, the protoss passes the test.

Those who have followed the path of the Khala find it far more difficult to complete the trial and to date, only two individuals who have followed Khas's philosophy have passed, one of which was Tassadar, managing to pass the test through combining his Templar energies with those that Zeratul had taught him.

While Zeratul appears to know the identity of the other protoss of a similar background who passed the trial, he has yet to reveal more.
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