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Everyone Wants to Change Fighter

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Do You Like your Fighter Changed?

Of Course! Fighters Suck

57%

[ 4 ]

Your hurting my fighter! I love Regdar!

42%

[ 3 ]

Total Votes : 7

He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: Everyone Wants to Change Fighter

Link:

Fighter Facelift Thread

Let's have our own discussion about the poor, poor fighter. Does it really need a facelift?
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boy_bakal

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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject:

I voted they suck. Though I have much love for Ftr 2. XD

The feat choices available just cannot make up for class features. It might help if there were some good "fighter only" feats; sure there's weap spec and gwf and so on, but i mean, are any of those really comparable to evasion, divine grace, rage, et al.?
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Xtian

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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject:

You can find many fighter-related discussions in this forum. This one is funny Laughing

.
On fighter fixes, a lot of people have done it and fail. The best fix was to change the chassis entirely, hence the Warblade.

This article is good to read. THe title is Analyzing the Fighter vs. The Warblade. I recommend that you read it guys. ^__^

One weakness of fighter is the lack of high level feats. Weapon Supremacy? Don't make me laugh. As Revan said, at level 18, it is a little too late. And it is not that good. SOmeone demonstrated (I can't find it) that you can give a fighter class bonus feat every level and still struggle. I say you can make epic fighter feats non-epic and fighter will still be weak. And as I posted that thread, a fighter is a little redundant in combat and useless outside it. A cleric and druid and wizard and sorcerer can beat a fighter in his own arena.

The immediate problem is the lack of high level feats. Second is uselessness outside of combat. A fighter with charisma as dump stat will find it hard to buy items since he can not gather info effectively. A fighter leading a siege can not identify the weak spots in fortifications since he has no access to knowledge skills.

And oh, a fighter with a bodyguard background will have the same proficiency with a fighter of gladiator or military background. Right.

In fairness to fighter, at epic levels, the power levels of spellcasters and fighters narrow. At non-epic, a wizard 18 can gate a titan to crush a fighter 18 with weapon supremacy. At level 60, a wizard can gate a titan the fighter breaks the titan's neck.

And oh, my vote to the topic? It is not in the choice because my vote is fighters do not suck if I use them. Twisted Evil

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Revan

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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject:

I'm very interested in these builds. As Analyzing the Fighter vs. The Warblade points out very effectively, the fighter just can't cut it against supposedly comparable core classes. I'm still in progress trying to read these. Thanks for the links guys. Anyone interested in trying to adopt any of these?
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Xtian

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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject:

Glad to hear that enjoy reading it. ^__^

If any of you are a member of WotC boards, you can rate the article. I rated it 5/5. Very Happy

Quote:

Anyone interested in trying to adopt any of these?

I am going to read again the article and absorb it. I bow to the wisdom of the author. Very Happy

Xtian

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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject:

And oh, two of popular fighter versions:
Seerow's Fighter and
Otto the Bugbear's Fighter

I am not saying they are the best fighter versions. I am just pointing you some popular versions.
_________________
solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

Pitz-Ikko

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Joined: 16 Jan 2007

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Location: Abu Dhabi

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:07 am Post subject:

Well, my gaming group here has a pretty cool fix for the 3.5 Fighter: He retains the Parry skill. Thus, he has the Improved Parry feat available only to him. It's not perfect, but it works. Somehow makes the Deflect Arrows feat tree useless for him, though. Wink

For the most part, the Fighter - and practically all martial-only classes - is only useful at the lower levels, when the casters are not yet into their prime. And the game system is not trying to hide this fact, hence their numerous options for multiclassing into the middle and late levels.

I've learned much more ever since my first two beginning characters, both straightforward fighters: they just won't cut it when the casters begin to pump it up. No matter how much you modify these martial-only classes, they will suck later on if they do not deviate from their class progression.

Since I only use up to two levels of Fighter in my newer builds, I really don't have any fix for the Fighter in mind. Embarassed

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Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:44 am Post subject:

Pitz-Ikko wrote:

I've learned much more ever since my first two beginning characters, both straightforward fighters: they just won't cut it when the casters begin to pump it up. No matter how much you modify these martial-only classes, they will suck later on if they do not deviate from their class progression.

I wanna share! I think my first four or five(?) characters have at least four levels of fighters. Very Happy

The author of Analyzing the Fighter vs. The Warblade said it right: Prestige classes killed the fighter.

Now, you don't have any more reason to have more than four levels of fighter. Sad

Pitz-Ikko wrote:

Since I only use up to two levels of Fighter in my newer builds, I really don't have any fix for the Fighter in mind.

My revision of my death knight does not include many fighter levels. Nevertheless, his identity is a fighter. Very Happy

boy_bakal

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:52 am Post subject:

Pitz-Ikko wrote:

For the most part, the Fighter - and practically all martial-only classes - is only useful at the lower levels, when the casters are not yet into their prime.

For Fighters, yes. For martial classes in general, I disagree. Pre-epic, a well-built Initiator can be pretty lethal. Not as versatile as the spellcasters, true, but it can still take down an opponent or two. Also, a Barbarian with the proper items (and, if need be, support from allied casters) can still hold its own later on.

Then again, I suppose it depends on one's interpretation of "martial only." If the only thing a class has got going for it is its good BAB (and fort save, most like) and a few extra feats, it's simply not going to cut it.
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Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:14 am Post subject:

Initiators may be stronger than Martial (just to differentiate them) but both of them bow to the might of full spellcasters.

Pre-epic: Barbarian 20 versus Wizard 20.
Wizard casts time stop
Wizard casts dimensional lock
Wizard casts acid fog/cloudkill/incendiary cloud/etc.
Wizard casts forcecage.
Wizard conjures snacks and wait the barbarian die.

Pre-epic: Warblade 20 versus Wizard 20.
Wizard casts time stop
Wizard casts dimensional lock
Wizard casts acid fog/cloudkill/incendiary cloud/etc.
Wizard casts forcecage.
Wizard conjures snacks and wait the warblade die.

Warblade 20 and Barbarian 20 versus Wizard 20.
Wizard casts time stop
Wizard casts gate and calls solar/titan/balor/pitfiend
Wizard casts gate and calls solar/titan/balor/pitfiend
Wizard casts quickened invisibility and nondetection.
Called creatures uses their summon abilities then beat the crap out of two melee characters.

Starting mid to high levels the power gap between spellcasters and nonspellcasters is the widest. At epic levels, this gap narrows.

Quote:

Pre-epic, a well-built Initiator can be pretty lethal.

A wizard does not have to be well-built to be lethal. At level 1, sleep, color spray, hold person, and others are effectively save-or-die spells.
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

He Who Founds Wyrmlings

Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:09 am Post subject:

Xtian wrote:

Quote:

Pre-epic, a well-built Initiator can be pretty lethal.

A wizard does not have to be well-built to be lethal. At level 1, sleep, color spray, hold person, and others are effectively save-or-die spells.

Swordsage can teleport out of a forcecage!! Laughing

As for Warblades... Oh, well.

The thing is, A fighter can still be lethal later on... Granted that he has a wizard cohort to buff him, he somehow raises his will save, and oh, the wizard cohort should also disintegrate any forcecage, wall of force problems.. Laughing

He can still work, bottom line, but most likely, only if he's not by himself... Sad

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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:46 am Post subject:

Analyzing the fighter VS the Warblade is awesome...

Long, though...

My opinion on the topic is, maybe the Warblade should be built up as an alternate fighter, in that you can't take fighter if you've taken Warblade...

Hmmm... I'm not sure if that's such a good idea...

Enjoy reading, guys... Cool

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He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject:

Hey, here's an idea guys: What if we make an HGC-approved alternate fighter? Cool

Of the stuff that I've read on the wbldVSftr, this seems to make the most sense to me:

From the Wizards board, originally poted by aelryinth

Quote:

Me, I'd just call it a Heroic Bonus feat. This is a distinct reference to the spell that allows a wizard to grab any Fighter feat he wants. Any person who has problems with the power of the feat I'd just refer to the spell that duplicates my class abilities, and tell them to think long and hard about not allowing me to duplicate the power of a third level spell that duplicates my own class abilities.

I'd move it to fifth level...a 'dead level', to really make taking it stick. I'd pop the feat in at level 5,10,15, and 20.

And I wouldn't say ANY feat. That would be, well, too much. Instead, I'd introduce the same kind of mechanic that Wizards get. I'd make a 'pool' of feats, equal initially to 3+ Int bonus, and then I'd let a Fighter 'buy' feats to expand his pool, just like a wizard getting new spells.

His second Heroic Feat could be the second feat in a chain, or any of his first pool. He'd get another 3 + Int for pool two, and then another set for pool3, and another for pool4.

Would there be book keeping? Yeah. You could just use 'any Fighter bonus feat' and it would simplify things, but with a pool, you allow some level of customization...the character chooses the optional feats based on availability of training, and can even build multiple 'optional feat chains' and the like. As a DM and/or player, you could choose simplicity or some customizing. It's like a Wizard picking the spells for his books.

Fighter-only feats won't solve the problem unless they are extremely able to scale. The Weapon Spec Tree is precedent, but it's a joke. The whole tree should be ONE feat. And that's what such feats would have to be, to encourage others to take Ftr/20 and be proud of it.

Heroic feat trees every 5 levels sound really cool (and strangely familiar). *metamagic* *cough cough* *Talent trees* *cough cough*
The fact that it can ONLY be taken by fighters EXCLUSIVELY rocks.

Now, maybe we could adopt this, and then design our own heroic trees?
Things I'm interested in:

*A heroic feat tree that allows you to ignore max dex for light, then medium, then heavy armor. Possibly going to those uber-heavy exotic armor in Races of Stone at level20?
*The benefits of your weapon focus tree extending to a new weapon every five levels (ie, I have weapon foc and spec with the longsword. At 5th level, I can expand these to my Glaive, too.)
*Some tree that relates to Archery. Legolas builds should still be viable, methinks. Nowadays, Orb chunking Magi tend to be favored over the Archers, which is sad considering Archers are such a part of fantasy...
*A feat tree that essentially changes him into a full initiator, and to choose a maneuver every take from one school of his choice (excluding Shadow Hand, Desert Wind), and a stance every 2nd take of the feat tree.

I also propose that if we do decide to have an HGC-certified fighter, we should up his skill points to 4+int modifier, and (because it feels appropriate), add Martial Lore to his class skills. He may or may not be an initiator, but he must have studied about it...

methinks. Razz

**********
Here's a rough draft of what I think it should look like:

Upon approaching 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a fighter gains a bonus Heroic Feat. Only fighters can take Heroic Feats. He must meet the pre-requisites of the feat to take it, as normal.

Extended Weapon Focus [Heroic]
Pre-requisite: Weapon focus (any), Fighter level 5th
Benefit: Choose a weapon with which you are proficient. You can now apply the following feats to this weapon, granted that you already have the feat in your list: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Weapon Mastery, Weapon Supremacy, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic weapon Specialization.
Special: Unlike other Heroic Feats, this feat is only available as a bonus Heroic Feat.
Note: You can effectively have two or more copies of Weapon Mastery, if you take Extended Weapon Focus on a weapon with the same damage type. The effects stack. Example. Tordek, a 10th level fighter with Str20(+5), has Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning) via the Warhammer. He decides to take Extended Weapon Focus (Mace). When using his +2 Warhammer, his attack is +22=10(BA)+5(Str)+2(enh)+1(WFoc)+4(WMasteryx2). His one handed damage is 1d8+13 (+2enh, +4Wmastery, +5str, +2Wspec)

Armor Clothing [Heroic]
Your character wears armor practically everyday, he's as flexible with it as normal clothing.
Pre-requisites: Dex15, Proficient with Light Armor, Fighter level 5th.
Benefit: The maximum dexterity bonus of all Light Armor for you is either it's regular Maximum Dexterity, or your fighter level, whichever is higher.

Improved Armor Clothing [Heroic]
Prerequisites: Dex17, Proficient with Medium Armor, Fighter level 10th, Armor Clothing.
Benefit: The maximum dexterity bonus of all Medium Armor for you is either it's regular Maximum Dexterity, or your fighter level, whichever is higher.
Furthermore, your speed bonus is no longer lessened by wearing medium armor.

Greater Armor Clothing [Heroic]
Pre-requisites: Dex19, Proficient with Heavy Armor, Fighter level 15th, Armor Clothing, Improved Armor Clothing.
Benefit: The maximum dexterity bonus of all Heavy Armor for you is either it's regular Maximum Dexterity, or your fighter level, whichever is higher.
Furthermore, your speed bonus is no longer lessened by wearing heavy armor.

Martial Adept [Heroic]
Pre-requisites: Martial Lore eight ranks, Fighter Level 5th, Martial Study
Benefit: Your fighter levels now count as full Initiator levels when determining eligibility for maneuvers.
Also, you can recover one expended maneuver by concentrating. This requires a full-round action.

Martial Study [Heroic]
Prerequisites: Martial Lore 13 ranks, Fighter Level 10th, Martial Adept heroic feat.
Benefit: As the feat of the same name, except as noted above. As normal, only three copies of a feat with this name is allowed for a character.

Advanced Martial Prowess [Heroic]
Prerequisites: Three copies of Martial Study, Fighter level 20th
Benefit: This functions like the Martial Study Feat, except that it doesn't count toward the "can only be taken thrice" condition of the said feat.
Note. This feat can only be taken once.

**********

Criticisms are welcome. Very Happy

Please bonk me in the head if I'm wildly off track.
*I like my martial feat tree in that, if used in one school, it could most likely give you one 9th-level maneuver.
*I'm not sure if my Extended Weapon Focus went off-mark. I mean, it could mean a very high attack roll and damage roll potential for a purist fighter... But hey, wasn't that the point?
*I'm stumped on the Archery part. I just do not know what to do with bows and arrows...
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Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Swordsage can teleport out of a forcecage!!

Hence Dimensional lock. Razz

About the feats BJ, let me ask you this first:

What is the problem with the fighter?
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

He Who Founds Wyrmlings

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Posts: 3997

Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject:

Xtian wrote:

Quote:

Swordsage can teleport out of a forcecage!!

Hence Dimensional lock. Razz

About the feats BJ, let me ask you this first:

What is the problem with the fighter?

That's an easy one....

Err...

It's the fact that...

Gah! You got me there, goderator. I shouldn't try to fix something, if i don't know what's wrong with it... Crying or Very sad

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boy_bakal

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject:

I thought the entire point of fixing the Fighter was the fact that it's clearly outmatched by spellcasting classes, and no Fighter 20 build could matchup to a well built Druid/Crc/Wiz/Sorc 20?

Not saying that's true, course. Just reiterating the general impression people tend to get of why the Fighter is weak.
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Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject:

Clearly outmatched is not the problem, it is the effect.

SO, what is the root of the problem?

We need to identify this very root of the problem before proposing any fixes.

Quote:

and no Fighter 20 build could matchup to a well built Druid/Crc/Wiz/Sorc 20?

Except that a Druid/Crc/Wiz/Sorc 20 is better fighter than the fighter.
Sad

Revan

Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject:

Xtian wrote:

Clearly outmatched is not the problem, it is the effect.

SO, what is the root of the problem?

We need to identify this very root of the problem before proposing any fixes.

Quote:

and no Fighter 20 build could matchup to a well built Druid/Crc/Wiz/Sorc 20?

Except that a Druid/Crc/Wiz/Sorc 20 is better fighter than the fighter.
Sad

Please explain why clearly outmatched is not the problem.

As you pointed out yourself, the Spellcaster 20 generally functions as a better fighter than a Fighter 20. The fighter's advantages (good BAB, feat versatility, and weapon damage strength) are too easily copied or even surpassed by a using a set of spells.

While viable and fun from levels 1-5, Fighter is just not a good class to take up to capstone levels. Which is kind of sad actually, given the world's history of warrior heroes, as well as decades of fantasy fiction to the contrary.
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mnightsilver

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject:

I love Redgar! Very Happy

Or at least I like what he represents. To tell the truth, I don't want any changes with the fighter. So it's the weakest class, so what? It's a generic class. It's something that newbies in DnD would prefer to take purely. It's like the "Stepping Stone" for DnD players.

But I'm open to additional class features. Just don't remove the bonus feats. I actually like some fighter level substitutions.

And yes, I always like Fighter 2. Wink

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mnightsilver

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject:

Additionally, why not create a martial campaign (and no Tome of Battle!). In that kind of campaign, people will get to appreciate the fighter.

Make a low-magic martial campaign. Make it RP heavy. We'll see who can make the best fighter.

Forget versatility. BANAT BANAT! Laughing

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boy_bakal

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject:

Xtian wrote:

Except that a Druid/Crc/Wiz/Sorc 20 is better fighter than the fighter. Sad

Exactly my point.

At its core, the problem here is, "what can my character do?" At high levels, the caster is a virtual swiss army knife of versatility. He can swing, evoke, conjure, revive, buff, detect, identify, read, etc etc etc. What about the fighter? Well, he can swing this big stick here, and that's about it. His usefulness is completely eliminated later on, because while he's getting charmed, dominated, singed, trapped, killed, revived, killed, and revived again, his buddies are pulling all sorts of tricks around it. Krusk was enraged and thus he wasn't dominated, Lidda made some quick moves and dodged the fireball completely, while Mialee cast celerity and 'ported out of harm's way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that feats will have a hard time taking the place of class features, at least the way the feat pool is looking right now. Is it completely unreasonable to throw in some class features here and there in the Fighter progression? Is it so wrong to give fighters a bit of help in their areas of weakness? Because the way things are going, WotC is still teaching Regdar how to swing his sword, and it's just not necessary; the Fighter class in and of itself already gives Regdar a more than adequate familiarity with his weapon of choice.
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Pitz-Ikko

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject:

But then again, the martial classes are the best built to handle no-magic situations like Beholder encounters or anti-magic atmospheres. Wink

The beholder faces Mialee and opens its largest eye. Instantly, Mialee feels all connection with her arcane abilities severed. Within seconds, Mialee saw her last picture - that of a great maw with a great many fangs.

Then again, there's Initiate of Mystra, but that's only in FR. Twisted Evil

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supertotoy

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject:

I'm afraid I have to disagree with Pitz. On a beholder battle, the fighter will get toast by the beholder's rays... But then again, everybody gets toast when the EYE is on them. Freaking anti-magic cone... Mad

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boy_bakal

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject:

I'll have to agree with the Beholder example. But it's a very specific one, is the thing. What about the other 90% of the time when the party isn't in reach of an AMF?

And yeah, there's the whole Mystra stuff and other random things from the Forbroken Realms. Just goes to show how much "support" the martial classes get, eh?
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Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject:

Beholder is one thing.

Colossi are another! Shocked

Quote:

I agree with Pitz. Against a beholder, a fighter is better off inside the antimagic, to protect himself from charm person. What's worse than fighting a beholder is fighting a beholder with a fighter companion.

Quote:

Please explain why clearly outmatched is not the problem.

What I was saying was being outmatched is the effect but not the root of the problem.

Quote:

As you pointed out yourself, the Spellcaster 20 generally functions as a better fighter than a Fighter 20. The fighter's advantages (good BAB, feat versatility, and weapon damage strength) are too easily copied or even surpassed by a using a set of spells.

This is the one of the problem.

Quote:

While viable and fun from levels 1-5, Fighter is just not a good class to take up to capstone levels.

Yep. Prestige classes broke the fighter.

WotC fixed this by replacing the fighter with martial adepts. You know, abilities that scale with levels, and some usability outside combat.

I am thisclose on agreeing that fighter class is better of as a npc class.

If we are to make our own fighter fix/version, first, we need to identify the problems so we can solve it properly.

Read the article guys ...
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

supertotoy

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject:

What I think the fighter needs is to be good at something. His role in the party (to tank or hack things) is too easily replaced by the persistently buffed spellcasters. He's not as tough or strong as the barbarian to be the better tank, nor is he as skillful as the rogue. Flexible? We know he is NOT that flexible. The Paladin can use persuasive speech and can also see through flattery while being a decent fighter (with good HD, BAB and saves[via divine grace]!) and secondary healer cum spellcaster.

Now let's look at the fighter with all fighter feats... what's he really good at?
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Xtian

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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject:

supertotoy wrote:

You just reiterated the fighter problem.
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solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!"

boy_bakal

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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:31 am Post subject:

Which brings me to another point. Back in 2.0 or older I've heard the Fighter's main draw was that he was proficient in almost all weaponry. These days, proficiency just isn't enough. There are weapon foci, of course... but the problem with weapon focus is that it encourages the fighter to focus on a particular weapon. It breaks the spirit of the class, where ideally he could just take whatever weapon the group happened upon and wield it with great skill.

Is it totally unreasonable to put all foci into one feat? Like, say, Weapon Focus (martial). Is it really that gamebreaking, ultimately? I'd say it's reasonable enough, and it preserves the fighter's initial role (and yes, before anybody brings this up, the feat will have to be worded such that it can't be used to cheat one's way into PrC's).

Another strength of vintage fighter is the god-awesome weapons he could use. Who needs spells when you're wielding some divine hammer that summons thunderbolts from the sky? But see, 3.0 "fixed" this borkenness by making magic weapons that had funky, ineffective abilities that are completely useless during high levels. Most people just opt for a good ol' +5 abilityX/abilityY weapon of choice, as opposed to Moradin's Mighttastic Hammer of Fantastic Power, because the former is consistently reliable while the latter is stopped dead in its tracks by anyone who can succeed on a DC 17 Reflex save.

As such, one of my proposed fixes is to bring back the power in magical weapons. Maybe we could up the save DC's of some abilities, something like DC X + Str mod. Maybe they could generate some sort protective field that shields the fighter from magic tricks like nondetection, compulsions, etc. There's all sorts of things we could have weapons do; mythical weaponry is part of fantasy after all, but the DnD system just doesn't have much in terms of mythical weaponry. And, to cap it all off, these custom weapons could have requisite fighter levels on them (i.e. a particular weapon can only be wielded by an nth level fighter).
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Xtian

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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:42 am Post subject:

To make it short, your proposal is not in the fighter but in the magic weapons?

And oh ... you've just said another fighter's weakness: Too much reliance in magic items. Very Happy

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boy_bakal

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Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:15 am Post subject:

not necessarily. my argument wasn't meant to fix the fighter per se, just to buff him up a bit. it's possibly one part of the solution, not the solution in and of itself.

but yes, i think the magic items of late are horrendous. but that's for another thread.

and fine, the fighter is magic item-dependent. that's one of the drawbacks of playing a martial class. wouldn't it make sense to provide him with items only he could use so that later on he still retains some usefulness?

yeah, he'll be subject to disjunctions, acid fogs, etc. that's when his friend the Cleric casts miracle to help him out. that's not weakness, it's teamwork Razz

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