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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, don't vent it out on the Poor Orange d20! I sacked Vrahn's father with that die, I'll have you know.
Monk makes a run for the King! OMG, three traps along the way! Fortitude save? Cool! Reflex save? Nice! Will save? No problem! Now, a Stunning Fist! Your Majesty, make a Fortitude save. Fail? Too bad! Down you go. HEHEHEHE! 
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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dark_axis
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Eternal Elan
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| Joined: 02 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 1898 |
| Location: 666th Layer of Hell |
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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first and foremost i don't think that the dice is biased by some hex hehehehe off mo kasi aura of unluck mo xtian pagnaglalaro. heheheh pero ung isang dice na orange na malinis akin so walang reklamo dun yung kay bj medyo rounded na talaga medyo mabilis kasi nagdeteriorate un sa rami ng laro.
_________________
Only by confronting your darkest fears can you find the light...
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 719 |
| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Mahirap i-off ang Aura of Unluck ni Xtian. Innate na Hexblade yan eh. 
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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dark_axis
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Eternal Elan
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| Joined: 02 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 1898 |
| Location: 666th Layer of Hell |
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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correct ka diyan minsan magroroll sana lahat ng set ng stats e nandun ata sa xtian so asa lahat makakuha ng magandang roll hehehehe ewan ko ba lalo na pagnagrorolll tpos sabihin nya 1 yun nagwaone minsan, scary.... 
_________________
Only by confronting your darkest fears can you find the light...
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Orange d20. So many memorable experience.
| Quote: | | Mahirap i-off ang Aura of Unluck ni Xtian. Innate na Hexblade yan eh. |
It could be suppressed though.  |
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dark_axis
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Eternal Elan
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| Joined: 02 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 1898 |
| Location: 666th Layer of Hell |
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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oi nagrereact o guilty hehehehhe
_________________
Only by confronting your darkest fears can you find the light...
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
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| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Xtian wrote: | | It could be suppressed though. |
If you're wearing non-black, perhaps. Otherwise, don't count on it!
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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Xtian
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Goderator
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Pitz-Ikko wrote: | | Xtian wrote: | | It could be suppressed though. |
If you're wearing non-black, perhaps. Otherwise, don't count on it! |
How did you know?!?!?!
Yeah ... Recently due to academic requirements i can't wear black  |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
| Posts: 1920 |
| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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then those academic rules persons must die @_@
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
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| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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So, what shall it be?
A knife in the back?
A fireball right in the face?
An empowered, maximized lightning bolt?
Choices, choices...
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Zero |
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Pitz-Ikko wrote: | So, what shall it be?
A knife in the back?
A fireball right in the face?
An empowered, maximized lightning bolt?
Choices, choices...
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I vote fireball. It has the most potential for maximized splash damage. Farming Commoners FTW! XD
Ever teh CE adventurer, heh.
_________________
And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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From here
| d20srd wrote: | Metamagic Feats
You can spend 1 action point to add the effect of any one metamagic feat that you have to a spell you are casting. The spell is cast at its normal level (without any level adjustment because of the feat) and takes no extra time to cast.
Heighten Spell automatically raises a spell’s effective level to the highest level of spell you are capable of casting. For example, if a 7th-level wizard with the Heighten Spell feat casts burning hands and spends 1 action point to heighten the spell, the spell is treated as if it were a 4th-level spell in all respects even though the wizard prepared it normally (as a 1st-level spell). |
Revan, is this use of action points allowed?
Are all uses in the given link allowed? |
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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If I were a DM and using the non-stacking AP system, I'd say go for it. It's not that unbalancing considering that you can only use it so many times during a certain level (constrained by the APs, of course).
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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Xtian
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Goderator
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Just hope Revan thinks the same. ... |
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: Action Points |
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Just started checking out the list. Offhand comments:
-The special actions section is all good to go. We've been using this level of AP actions for a while now without an obscene amount of problems yet.
-As for the Feat Improvements section, this is where it gets a little iffier. It doesn't feel particularly abusive except in the Metamagic options. What do you guys think? I'm tempted to say no on the Metamagic, but I'd like to read your opinions first.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Xtian wrote: | | Just hope Revan thinks the same. ... |
Of course, in your case, Revan still has to take into consideration your penchance for the unthinkable and the unbelievable.
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Revan wrote: | | As for the Feat Improvements section, this is where it gets a little iffier. It doesn't feel particularly abusive except in the Metamagic options. What do you guys think? I'm tempted to say no on the Metamagic, but I'd like to read your opinions first. |
If you're not totally convinced and your players are really asking for it, try a compromise. Make it so that they have to spend an amount of APs equal to the number of spell levels the metamagic feat changes the spell it is used on.
Example: A PC Wizard would have to spend 4 APs to use Quicken Spell in this way. Likewise, a spellcaster would need X APs to raise a spell's level by X thru Heighten Spell.
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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That solution sounds good, actually. It would burn APs like crazy, but would still allow you to blast a way with a quickened, empowered, maximized disintegrate if you have 9 APs to burn. Great for those times when an Alpha Strike is required.
A concern with the system in the link is that Maximizing a spell and Empowering a spell costs the same, even if one is grotesquely more powerful than the other. I'm sure we can all find other similar cases (Quicken vs. Still) for example.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| 1 ap per spell level? Too much! It would be better off buying metamagic rods and taking arcane preparation. Or incense of meditation IIRC. |
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it's already working since it's discouraging you from using it too much. The point of the rule is to prevent players from abusing it, making them reserve the use for *VERY* special situations. Besides, it's not like you have to do anything to use it, like get a feat or buy an item. It's just there, waiting to be used, so why not?
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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dark_axis
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Eternal Elan
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| Joined: 02 Jan 2007 |
| Posts: 1898 |
| Location: 666th Layer of Hell |
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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could it be just like power point??? divide the increase in spell level by two and that's how many action points you use. That sound fair, right??? Msakit ung 1:1 ratio ok lang siguro ung 1AP : 2 spell level increase. 
_________________
Only by confronting your darkest fears can you find the light...
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Xtian
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Goderator
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitz-Ikko wrote: | | Well, it's already working since it's discouraging you from using it too much. The point of the rule is to prevent players from abusing it, making them reserve the use for *VERY* special situations. |
I doubt anyone will use it all. In a character without infinite loops in mind, if you can do it the you are worth it. If a wizard can quicken a fireball at level 5 he paid the price of it: an action point and feat. And it is just one fireball. He paid the price and he's worth it. A quickened wish requires you to have wish, 9th level spell slot, quicken spell, one ap, and 5000XP. He casts quickened wish and he pays the price. IF a wizard can cast something persistent at level 1 he's worth it since he paid the price eveytime he does it.
And how can a player know that this very special situation will come so he can reserve his action points then spend it at exactly the right time? And generally, in D&D, rules are made on allowing players on which what they CAN do. Oh yes, your rule gives them another option but on perspective of practice, your rule is moot since it requires to have the right amount of action points, the right metamagic, the right spell, and the right situation.
And lets do a price analysis using your rule.
A level 20 sorcerer has PC wealth of 760,000 gp.
The same sorcerer has level 9 spell slots, rapid metamagic feat, and quicken spell.
Greater Quicken Metamagic Rod's price is 170,000 gp.
That same sorcerer has maximum number of 15 Action points (AP).
Action points cost:
| d20srd wrote: | | An action point is roughly equivalent to a magic item worth 100 gp per character level |
The level 20 sorcerer in question's AP is equivalent to 30,000gp(15 AP * 100gp * 20 cl).
Below is comparison of cost of AP and Rod of metamagic, quickening a 9th level spell.
| Code: | Method: Action points Metamagic Rod
Frequency of quickening: 3 this level 3/day
theoretical equivalent gp cost: 24,000 170,000
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As can be seen above, spending AP 1:1 ratio per level increase is too expensive. Assuming the APs will be spent only for quickening, the sorcerer can do it 3 times at current level. With quicken metamagic rod, 3/day for whole level 20 career.
Another perspective:
Rod's price divided by equivalent gp price of AP is equal to 7.08, 7 dropping the decimal. 7 times 3 (number of time the sorcerer can quicken with AP) is equal to 21. Which means that using the Action point method the sorcerer should be able to quicken 21 times at his current level to match the AP and Rod gp cost.
For ease of viewing. At constant price of 170,000gp.
| Code: | Method: Action points Metamagic Rod
Frequency of quickening: 21 this level 3/day
theoretical equivalent gp cost: 170,000 170,000
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The point of this is the item in question is much more efficient than spending AP at 1:1 ratio.
And the point of this post is that doing it in 1:1 ratio is too much. AP, once spent, is forever lost. It is a very limited resource unlike GP/level/hp/feats/skill points that can be gained or regained by using infinite loops or abuse.
My stand is, the rule in srd is good enough. If a dm finds this very abusable maybe the dm in question is not creative enough to employ dispel magics, counter-spells, other challenging situation, or situation that renders the tactic useless..
Persistent energy immunity? dispel magic, antimagic, different energy type, grapple, melee combat, mundane attack.
maximized fireball at level5? throw fire elementals/demons/devils, energy resistance, energy immunity, etc.
_________________
solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!" |
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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And you're telling me this...why?? I'm not your DM. Like I said, if I were your DM I'd go with the normal method. If you think nobody's gonna use it the 1:1 way, then it's just like Revan said - he's wont to say "no" to it anyway. I was just posting a suggestion, and your DM seemed to like it so that's that.
| Xtian wrote: | | My stand is, the rule in srd is good enough. If a dm finds this very abusable maybe the dm in question is not creative enough to employ dispel magics, counter-spells, other challenging situation, or situation that renders the tactic useless.. |
Oooh, I don't think I like the sound of this. It's up to Revan to answer to this one...
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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Xtian
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Goderator
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Pitz-Ikko wrote: | And you're telling me this...why?? I'm not your DM. Like I said, if I were your DM I'd go with the normal method. If you think nobody's gonna use it the 1:1 way, then it's just like Revan said - he's wont to say "no" to it anyway. I was just posting a suggestion, and your DM seemed to like it so that's that.
| Xtian wrote: | | My stand is, the rule in srd is good enough. If a dm finds this very abusable maybe the dm in question is not creative enough to employ dispel magics, counter-spells, other challenging situation, or situation that renders the tactic useless.. |
Oooh, I don't think I like the sound of this. It's up to Revan to answer to this one... |
It applies to all dms out there, including me.  And I'm not insuniating anything. Just clearing it up
oohhh .... another point! I forgot this but most of Axis' npcs (??? it is all i think to axis) also has action points. If pcs can have it, so do some npcs. It is written in srd anyway. |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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And I am telling you (and to everyone else) this to point out many things.
And also, it is not exclusive to you. |
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Another suggestion, this time by Mark:
You still spend 1 AP to apply a Metamagic feat to the spell, provided that:
1. You have the feat and are not simulating it through AP feat simulation.
2. You can cast a spell of the level that the Metamagic feat would make the boosted spell (ex. You can spend 1 AP to memorize a quickened magic missile as a level 1 spell, but only if you can already cast level 5 spells.)
3. Wizards and Clerics must still memorize, and so must spend the AP as they prepare the spell. Spontaneous casters can choose to spend the AP as they cast.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Pitz-Ikko
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D' Original Henio
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| Location: Abu Dhabi |
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Revan wrote: | Another suggestion, this time by Mark:
You still spend 1 AP to apply a Metamagic feat to the spell, provided that:
1. You have the feat and are not simulating it through AP feat simulation.
2. You can cast a spell of the level that the Metamagic feat would make the boosted spell (ex. You can spend 1 AP to memorize a quickened magic missile as a level 1 spell, but only if you can already cast level 5 spells.)
3. Wizards and Clerics must still memorize, and so must spend the AP as they prepare the spell. Spontaneous casters can choose to spend the AP as they cast. |
Umm, but that is what is already provided in the link, except for #3, which goes in favor of spontaneous casters, BTW.
_________________
A little surprising, really...
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Ah, ok, i must have misunderstood the entire thing. I'll check it again. If so, then let's give it a try in the field.
_________________
Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Then let them have an advatage this time. 
I don't want to spark wizard versus sorcerer debate here (that most of the time end up sorcerer as the loser) but spontaneous caster will greately appreciate that one. |
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