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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
| Posts: 3997 |
| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:25 pm Post subject: The 4E Red Box and the Essentials Line |
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Okay, just to jumpstart the D&D discussions, since it has been growing stale:
I know few of us here are old enough to remember the red box, but essentially (pun intended as you'll see below), the red box is what separated D&D from AD&D way back when Orcus had 120hp. You basically pick it up, grab a few friends, and then you'll be playing D&D in minutes. Of course, once you're hooked, you'll proceed to buy the core book triad (PHB, MM, DMG).
Ask a lot of old-time players how they began, and they'll probably mention the red box.
This year, 4E seeks to introduce a new generation of gamers by the reintroduction of the red box concept. The D&D 4E Starter Set is designed to take players from 1st-3rd level, and includes tokens to represent characters, a map, and even a few dice. Personally, if I get any extra income, I'll get a copy of the red box and bring it along whenever I introduce someone new to the game (which happens fairly often).
Intriguingly, the red box diverts from shifting into the core books. Instead, it will have its own batch of boxed/softcover Essentials:
*Heroes of the Fallen Lands: A player supplement that presents new builds and character options for the cleric, fighter, ranger, rogue, and wizard classes.
*Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms: A player supplement with new builds and character options for the cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, and warlock classes.
*Monster Vault: The iconic monsters revisited (I'm assuming new versions of the chromatic dragons, beholders, et al will be available that conforms to the MM2 specifications). Oh, and it has ten whole sheets of monster tokens. Interesting.
*Dungeon Master's Kit: A mini DMG, with two monster sheets, a DM screen, and two new battle maps.
Now here's the interesting part: Even though its marketed for the new players, there are enough reasons for us to get into it as well:
*The Heroes line presents new builds. NEW. BUILDS. Not the two-blade fighting style for rangers or the Dark Pact warlock, but new.
*The Monster Vault is the not too appealing to me right now, but I got to admit that the MM1 monsters really feel lackluster compared to their MM2 counterparts. I'll see these in DDi, though, so I'm going to be happy. However, the tokens could really work out well...
*The DMK is the one I'm least ecstatic about. it's the most expensive of the lot (40 dollars??), and all I really want out of it would be the DM screen. Because sadly, I just can't seem to get any of my players from any group I'm running to get me one. >.>
Also, except for the Monster Vault and DMK, the Essentials Line is cheaper than your usual set of books. The red box and both heroes softcovers are at 20 dollars.
So, your thoughts?
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Last edited by BJ on Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Revan
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Sith'ari, Chosen Heart of the Force
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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| Location: Korriban |
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Red Box: A play towards nostalgia. But who knows if it'll really be useful?
Player's Essentials Series: Look at the page count. Look at the bleeding page count! 352 pages of material for 20USD ~ 1kPHP! And new builds? I like! Definitely looking like a solid investment. Here's hoping they revamp the Warlock.  Okay, buying both is about as buying a new PHB, but at more than double the material! It's looking effing sweet. Sure, they'll probably up the fluff content, but what the hey.
Monster Vault: Part of me says, "But I already have the MM1 and 2! And will probably save for MM3 as well!" Another part of me says: "MM1 needs a major revamp." But the loudest part of me says: "10 sheets of tokens! TEN SHEETS OF TOKENS!" *want*
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Words are the only bullets in truth's bandolier. And poets are the snipers.
-George Wu (The Hyperion Cantos, Dan Simmons) |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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The Red Box will only be useful to the new folks. Also, is it just me, or is it using the exact same format (down to the art) that the original red box used?
I didn't notice the page count until you mentioned it, Revan! And think about it: MP, which was worth around $30, sold at Fully Booked for PhP1250. Imagine how much they'll sell one of the Heroes books. >.>
I doubt they'll do any revamping, though. Each class will be presented as full, but other than the builds, I expect them to function in exactly the same way that their PHB counterparts did.
Also, notice how the druid got in, but the bard didn't... :/
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Last edited by BJ on Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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erwin
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Master of None
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Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not familiar with the red box, but it does remind me of that table top game Gamecrab had which also has the same concept, sort of an RPG in one sitting complete with tokens, maps, and others (I can't remember the name, but I think Revan does)
I always look forward on new player character sources, so I hope I get to see the essential books. New builds are always welcome 
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There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: EDnD comes out next month! |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Many knights are members of chivalrous orders, though some are independent warriors who wander wherever their hearts take them. |
Out of curiosity, is there a knight in literature than can be described as above?
The first thing that came in my mind is a wandering samurai stereotype but the problem is.. it is not a knight.
_________________
solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!" |
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oghma
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Ancient Dragon
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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: |
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supertotoy
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Old Dragon
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| Joined: 23 Mar 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Xtian wrote: | | Quote: | | Many knights are members of chivalrous orders, though some are independent warriors who wander wherever their hearts take them. |
Out of curiosity, is there a knight in literature than can be described as above?
The first thing that came in my mind is a wandering samurai stereotype but the problem is.. it is not a knight. |
Knights-Errant are wanderers. e.g. Sir Gawain
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Master Wayne, you've just been PWNED! |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Magic Item Rarity
Ultimately, magic items are more "up to the DM" again now. Personally I'm okay with the parcel system, and I'll probably stick to that for my own games.
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erwin
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Master of None
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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A lucky dude got a copy of Heroes of the Fallen Lands and is generous enough to tell its contents.
Here is link to discussion.
| Quote: | Humans +2 to any
Dwarf +2 to Con; +2 to Str or Wis
Elf +2 to Dex; +2 to Int or Wis
Eladrin +2 to Int; +2 to Dex or Cha
Halfling +2 to Dex; +2 to Con or Cha |
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Xtian
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Goderator
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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| Location: Avernus |
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| erwin wrote: | A lucky dude got a copy of Heroes of the Fallen Lands and is generous enough to tell its contents.
Here is link to discussion.
| Quote: | Humans +2 to any
Dwarf +2 to Con; +2 to Str or Wis
Elf +2 to Dex; +2 to Int or Wis
Eladrin +2 to Int; +2 to Dex or Cha
Halfling +2 to Dex; +2 to Con or Cha |
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And being non-4ed player, I could not understand everything T_T
_________________
solbergb on sorcerers:
"Whether it is true or not, all sorcerers seem to act as if their power is inexhaustible. It really annoys the prepared casters."
A druid on rogue:
"Foolish girl! I am a Druid, I have special abilities more powerful than your entire class!" |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Reading the thread, it seems that the people are in agreement about the poster being a hoax. The races at least seem to be confirmed through similar (but more reliable) leakages of the red box.
*Humans get an alternate encounter power in lieu of some martial builds not having at-will powers (which thus wastes the bonus at-will "racial power" they had before). They say it allows you to add +4 to an attack roll. Add that to Action Surge... And you'll still still hear people say that humans suck in 4E. For the record, it's not a sentiment I agree with.
*Finally, eladrins make good feylocks.
*The dwarf has been upgraded to yet-another-str-con race. @_@ They're everywhere.
*Halflings get an optional Con mod? Why?
*And yes, elves are once again acknowledged as a wizard-viable race. XD
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erwin
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Master of None
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't know it was a hoax when I posted this O_O
*The new human racial power is awesome. I wonder if they'll make it an immediate action or a free one.
*I think con-dex halflings were made to make theme really synergistic with the assassin class. The flavor still needs convincing though.
There might be a chance that tieflings become a Con Int race O_O. And char ops will go wild.
I wonder if the races will get (racial) bonus to NADs when they choose abilities that correspond to the same NAD, like Str Con dwarves or Dex Int Elves
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There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:25 am Post subject: HotFL and HotFK! And no, it's not pr0n! |
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I doubt they'll change existing race features besides the stats. One thing they seemed to preserve is that they wanted to keep existing characters valid as much as possible (aka, humans don't get any extra modifiers).
Ah, Heroes of the Forgotten Lands is out for some people. Here's a thread:
En World: HotFL
Check out Fiery_Dragon's posts, his 3rd from the last on page 3 and 1st post on page 6. Feats galore! Note the fixes to Great Fortitude, lightning Reflexes, and Iron Will, as well as the Melee Training nerf.
Some other tidbits include:
*Rituals are not in EDnD. However, the warpriest build gets ressurection as a level 8 daily power. It can only be used at the end of an extended rest, and doesn't cost any component at all (I may houserule that in my games).
*Superior weapons don't show up in EDnD either. Basic mode for the win.
*You already know the slayer as a striker fighter build. Well, the charts in FL also mentions the classes of FK (or HotFK, whort for heroes of the Forgotten Lands, which is probably the worst abbreviation for a D&D product yet). Ranger gets two builds, the hunter (martial controller!) and scout (striker). Druids get the sentinel build, a leader.
ADD: And oh, check this out, if only to see how portable the Rules Compendium is:
Stuff We're Giving Away at PAX
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oghma
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Ancient Dragon
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| Joined: 20 Mar 2007 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:42 am Post subject: |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Oh man, I hate being corrected matter-of-factly when I turn out to be right.
| DnD Compendium wrote: | Melee Training
Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose an ability other than Strength. When you make a melee basic attack using a weapon you are proficient with, you can use that ability instead of Strength for the attack roll and the damage roll. |
It currently uses the full modifier for both attack and damage roll.
| Countdown to Essentials wrote: |
Finally, as you’ve seen in earlier previews, many classes in the Essentials products rely on basic attacks. The Melee Training feat allows a character to use any ability to modify such attacks. That feat has been updated so that it provides the new ability’s full bonus to attack rolls but only half to damage rolls. Melee Training offers its intended flexibility in creating characters without becoming a default choice.
For instance, a slayer who uses Melee Training to attack with Dexterity matches a Strength-based slayer in damage while gaining superior mobility by relying on light armor. A knight who opts to attack with Constitution gives up some damage but has more hit points and healing surges. Such characters are viable without becoming clearly better than ones without Melee Training, at the expense of using up a feat slot. |
The intent is clearly to make it less powerful.
Not a buff, a nerf.
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erwin
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Master of None
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| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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finally! martial controller!! 
I also saw the feats galore page (it's actually page 5 on the link BJ gave). Awesome stuff, especially the superior NAD amplifiers and expertise feats.
My only complaint now is the reusing of names, like Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, etc. It's sort of obvious which ones you'll get, but it sort of irritates me. :/
And also, you now have to specify which 'Human' you're using (Core or Essential) 
ADD: On the video link BJ gave, i'm more interested in that huge cube made out of M:tG Lands O_O it looks cool, and I might build one myself
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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| Joined: 30 Nov 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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That's... wow. It actually makes a lot of sense to keep humans at +2 (any) as opposed to +2 X / +2 Y. That kind of flexibility is incredible.
I think on the whole you'll avoid them for the dual stat builds (which unfortunately a lot of the newer classes tend to be), but strangely enough it works for classes that tend to be MAD (like Paladin; humans make for great paladins, imo) or just classes that benefit from flexibility of options (they're still my go-to Wizard race).
It's going to be interesting to look through the final product when it comes out.
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And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: Envy the Guys with Preview Copies |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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| Location: Sa sikmura ng Bakunawa |
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys, here's another one, this time from the upcoming (softbounc, pocket-book sized) Rules Compendium. I really hope they got the DC's right this time around.
Updated Skill DC's, take 2! (DDi only)
For those without DDi, here's the new DC in a cinch: At Level 1, Easy DC is at 8, Moderate DC is at 12, and Hard DC is at 19. Generally, easy and moderate DC's increase by 1 every even level, and Hard DC's increase by 1 at every level. It's not a hard rule, though; from level 13-14, the hard DC doesn't increase by 1 as expected. Also, at level 9-10-11-12, moderate DC always increases by 1 from the last level. Other discrepancies exist in the pattern, so it would be nice to refer to the table every now and then.
Now I want the Deluxe Dungeon Master's Screen even more... @_@
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: Updated YBC |
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As previously announced, many MM1 monsters are being revamped in the MV. Here's the new version of the Young Black dragon. Compare with the old one if you want:
*Frightful Presence is notably gone. Now personally, I like FP as an iconic "true dragon" ability, but I can live without it from here on in. Besides, I know a few people who abhor action denial from monsters *coughRevancough* even if they like to use the same action denial on enemies themselves. All in all, this is a good change for them if all reprinted dragons lose FP.
*It has MM2 defenses and MM3 damage expectations now. Add Instinctive Devouring and Action Recovery, and I'm sure this monster can lay the smackdown just about every round. Its easier to hit, but it also hits harder in return.
*It lost Cloud of Darkness, which was the core black's iconic lurker ability. In its place is Shroud of Gloom, which is more controller than lurker IMO.
*Acidic Blood.
| Quote: | Ranger: It's bloodied! Time to use Twin Strike to make sure I hit, it can't have that many hp remaining!
Other party members: No Aragorn, noooo!!!!
*TPK* |
*Tail Slash is replaced by Tail Sweep, which is an upgunned version all-in-all. It's now an OA instead of an IR, its reach is longer, and it knocks prone instead of pushing. Okay, the damage was decreased, but it now hurts allies too. @__@
All in all, chromatic dragons are scary again. I can't wait to see the updated blue. And the red.
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erwin
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Master of None
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. IMO it's now more deadly, especially Acidic Blood being an anti-defender, especially for those Combat Superiority Fighters that won't allow you to fly away XD
I like'd it w/o Cloud of Darkness. CoD was too strong, and instantly reduces party's hit rate.
Looking forward at the other dragons as well, especially my favorite Blue dragon (which I haven't used yet, but it's mechanically alluring to throw at an encounter )
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There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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As many of us already know, the ednd martial builds published so far (fighter, rogue, assassin) don't have at-will powers, which is one of the reasons why a human was given the choice to take Heroic effort instead of a third at-will.
However, you can still choose an at-will if you so choose to. Interestingly, that means you can take the e-fighter, and get dual strike or something. >.>
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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| Joined: 04 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: Now THAT is a druid |
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boy_bakal
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Lord of Pwnage
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice. The animal companions are quite strong. I think I prefer Druid of Summer just a wee bit more, but they're actually fairly even in terms of power level.
Personally, that's really something to look forward to when the books come out
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And I'm still, still longing. Still cold... so cold. |
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erwin
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Master of None
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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Lol animal attack, generic attack naming. I just find that funny.
Wow. Looks promising. So i guess the other build will account for the Autumn and Winter Druids.
| Quote: | If you die or your animal companion drops to 0 hit points, it disappears as the primal magic that sustains it dissipates. You have two ways of calling your companion back:
* Minor Action: You take a minor action and lose a healing surge. Doing so causes your animal companion to appear in the nearest unoccupied space, with hit points equal to your healing surge value. |
This functions a lot like Syllabear's Summon Bear skill (from DotA), which is cool.
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InfinityZero
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Young Adult Dragon
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Not only Animal Attack but Healing Word as well.. From what I can hear, Half-elves will get an alternate +2 Wis modifier. Not sure if it's replaceable with con or cha though
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Roses are red, violets are blue. Believe in me, that believes in you
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BJ
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He Who Founds Wyrmlings
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Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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This is pure speculation on my end, but I think the 4E archetype of the half-elf needs cha more than con, so con would probably be the flexible one.
Otoh, I also would have preferred it if half-elves get dex as an option instead of wis, but that's just me. >.>
Moving on:
Cavalier Paladin
Strength primary with Cha secondary! No Wisdom in sight whatsoever! LG requirement for the Virtue of Sacrifice!
If it gets a mount, it willdefinitely be a nostalgia paladin. 
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erwin
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Master of None
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| Joined: 06 Dec 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Looks great.
Strike of Hope and Vengeful Strike are numbered at-wills, so non-essentials paladin can take them I really like Strike of Hope
Also, Essential Ranger: Scout build is up.
Wow, it can make 2 attacks on a charge, provided it hit on the melee basic attack.
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There is happiness for those who accept their fate. There is glory for those who defy their fate
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