hobbygamers ~ View topic - The Great Book Blockade of the Philippines

In a nutshell, Philippine Customs are now charging taxes for the importation of books into our country, which for now seems to be a violation of the Florence Agreement, a UN treaty signed by the Philippines long ago.

There have been a number of blog posts regarding the topic, but the one by Kenneth Yu of Philippine Genre Stories is the most active/informative.

In addition, the Bibliophile Stalker clarifies certain things regarding the issue. It is a good read, if not only for the fact that he bashed UP HGC towards the end through my short comments on PGS.

If you feel the need to comment, remember to keep yourself calm and collected in your posts. The last thing we want is to confirm his accusations of nerdrage by succumbing to it in his own blog.

Discuss the issue here.

Read the essay first and showed it to Revan.

I don't think he's bashing HGC per se. Charles is just pointing out that you apparently did not know that anyone can order gaming books at Powerbooks, Fully Booked and other bookstores too for cheaper than on Amazon.

And that you could make more people aware of this opportunity rather than advocating that Amazon is your only source of gaming gear and bashing Customs for their actions.

Sad, read each and every article connected to the issue on the book blockade. It is RAW per wording on the Florence Agreement. I don't know if it was really meant to mean that or it was someone else' lack of knowledge in punctuation marks that has caused the problem. I think we should get a clarification from the UN but the problem here is would they respond to such an issue.

But with regard to the post before mine, I do have to correct you MKN, UPHGC knows about it. Pitz-ikko was the first one to avail such services in A Different Bookstore, while BJ also availed such services in CQ, I also availed of such services too. The delivery was inconsistent. Sometimes it came on time and sometimes it was delayed for some reasons. The cost though is not always cheaper per se. I have always made it a point that whenever I try to buy something, that I do my research. Like one example would be the Star wars book that I almost bought at CQ, I asked how much it was going to cost me if I ordered then compared the prices over the net. Results were that the shop was overpricing.

I don't think that we are advocating Amazon. It's a matter of preference by the writer of the statement. I do think that before we should make comments in behalf of UPHGC that it should be properly reviewed because whenever you mention the name UPHGC it doesn't just represent you ideal as a member but as of the whole group.

Well, just a suggestion though, would you guys like to create an online signature campaign for this one? That's a start.

Last time I checked, coining HGC as "ignorant" qualifies as bashing.

But hey, to be fair to Bibliophile Stalker will advocate coming into CQ for book purchases, as doing so is in his direct interest. I see nothing wrong with that; and as I said, I will try ordering through CQ again in the near future.

What he can't seem to understand, however, is that just because my interest was piqued via the medium of gaming, then it means that it is the only reason why I am so involved in this. The catalyst is not always the fuel. To him, blogging about it is pointless unless you bring new facts on the table - and I am unfortunately unable to do that. But that does not mean that I have no right to care.

What he does say that is right on the money, however, is the fact that we as an org are not doing anything about it yet. This is what we must change. We rarely address issues that concern many activists, but we are book lovers both of the RPG calibre and not, and I think the org must take action.

To that end, your online petition sounds valid, dark_axis. How do you propose should we go about it?

Very Old Dragon Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 693

Being horribly loud over the internets isn't necessarily doing nothing. >_>;; It's not the best way and it sometimes sounds annoying and whiny but being whiny enough till someone takes notice is pretty much half of activism and protest.

It doesn't sound nice but there it is...

Goddess Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 1118 Location: denial

It's called "Pester Power".

Yeah. Now here's the thing. There's whining over the net, and there's spreading the word towards some action. Much as I don't like some UP parties, we could take a lesson or two from them.

1. I talked to juaberman about this during jogging day, and he said there were people in the student councils that we could talk with to spread this issue. What's happening on this front? Also, we shouldn't just hand this off to someone and then let them bring the entire thing in whatever direction they want. If we are going to spread the word physically in UP, then we should stick to it and keep HGC's presence running the entire time, rather than simply hand it off to someone else. Get the org machinery running then!

2. The online petition idea is interesting. However, we don't want to write something half-cocked that might expose the org to potential flak that it doesn't deserve, nor do we want to come out as hasty or misinformed, so if we want a petition, we'll have to really work to make it good.

First, what do we want to accomplish with this petition? Do we simply want to publicize the issue? Do we want to air greivances? Do we want action towards a particular direction? In practice, it's usually all three at the same time, but it's usually a good idea to focus on one and let the rest slide in. Once that's in, we need to really come to grips with the nitty gritty of what this thing is all about so that we don't misinterpret things or come of as facile.

Next, who do we want to sign the petition? Do we simply want it to be a UPHGC thing? Or a more general UP Community thing? Or do we want it to be more of a web-wide appeal? Also, demographically, are we targeting just gamers, or readers in general? What do we tell them about the issue, what do we want them to do about it, and why do we want them to sign this online petition?

Finally, even if we get all the sigs we want, and we get a well worded position paper for the petition, who are we going to submit it to? Are we going to leave it adrift in the net to acquire more attention? Are we targeting a particular person? A government agency? Who do we want to impress with this when we're done?

Moved to HGC, as it has become an org matter.

Will comment later.

Very Old Dragon Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 693

Okay...since Revan asked my opinion on this.

Right now a petition won't work. Why? Because we need a lot of research and a target. The blogs are a good start but in the end we need something more substantial than that.

To that end what you want right now is to get Law talking because what we don't want as an org is to sound reactionary, which is always a big failing of the activists. Once you have a nice solid case then you can start making a very big fuss. We have to sound intelligent.

Revan is also right that we can't let anyone run away with the issue lest they try to make it into a Gloria is evil thing again. We have to remember that this is a tree not a forest and the fact that she is indeed evil has nothing to do with the issue at hand UNLESS her hand is found to be involved. We have to keep in mind that we're not a political organization.

Once you have your case it becomes a matter of applying pressure. Ideally what you want is to get someone big involved. This is when petitions start forming and you try to get the media's attention, as well as the other colleges like CAL (lawyers first before writers. We can't risk sounding like idiots now, can we? Razz

) Your best bet is congress or the senate. The idea is to start a chain reaction. Get enough bigwigs involved who think fake righteous indignation will get them somewhere and then the pressure will start forming.

At least...that's how I see it...

So if we want to get involved, the best bet for us right now is to try and get in touch with Law, which Revan is going to attempt I think. Approaching a Law org might help too if you're thinking about HGC publicity. Kind of like a tie in. Razz

Edit: Part of the research also means knowing what's at stake. Is there really a big change in the price with the tax or not? Which doesn't necessarily mean it's not worth protesting either way what we just want is to know if this can be made into a practical get normal people involved into the fracas thing or a idealism principle thing since it helps in formulating the strategy.

First off, here are a few resources on the entire flap:

The original flap was caused by an article by visiting non-fiction writer, Robin Hembley: The Great Book Blockade of 2009.
This was then amplified by Kenneth Yu, editor of Philippine Genre Stories in this post:The Great Book Blockade of 2009 (PGS Multiply)

The PGS seems to be something of a discussion central at the moment keeping the buzz rolling. The comments section is lively, with a lot of updates rolling in. See comments by pgenrestories, oxar2001law, and anitero, and mlq3.

Other interesting links to check out:
Bahay Talinhaga: On the Great Book Blockade of 2009 (This is the most lucid of the posts analysing the legalese)
Bibliophile Stalker: Clarifying The Great Book Blockade of 2009
Bibliophile Stalker: More Book Blockade Fallacies
The Explainer gets in on the act: Manuel L Quezon III on the Great Book Blockade

Posts by UPHGC members:
The Wolf's Lair: Somebody Needs To Run The Book Blockade!
The Wolf's Lair: Running the Blockade: Updates
The BeejCafe: Why Books are Getting More Expensive
The BeejCafe: Book Blockade Follow-Up

The text of the Florence Agreement

All right. So a petition does not sound practical. But whatever it is that we have to do, it cannot be denied that we HAVE to do something. So any further suggestions would be welcome. Once there is a plan that is workable, we can make it run.

In any case, pathy is not an option when something like this is close to home for many of us (for clarification: I mean the book readers, not the RPG gamers)

All right then:

For immediate action:
-We need to figure out what we want out of this. Org publicity and tackling an issue, I take it?

On the petition route:
-We want to figure out why a customs duty is being leveled on books, both because it can 1) increase the price on books, and 2) as a matter of principle, because we aren't supposed to break treaty obligations or set up barriers, however slight, to the exchange of cultural material. (Yea or Nay?)
-What's still in question is our demographic. Is this going to be a UP thing or a more widespread thing (Recommend UP first)? Is this just a gamer thing (not recommended), or are we publicizing it as a reader issue? (Talk to Lingua Franca and Ex Libris) We want people riled up about the customs on books and on principle of international treaty. Avoid STAND-UP for now, as they might hijack the thing, but don't rule them out as a contact for this.
-Who does this go to? This is a big unknown at the moment. Should we be trying to get this up the UP System? Elected officialdom? Intermediate steps like CAL and College of Law?

Whatever we decide, WE ACT FAST! Otherwise, we all just get left behind. We aren't a political org, but this is an issue that falls under our hobbygaming advocacy, as it does impact, however marginally, the supply of gaming books.

On higher principle, this is also about barriers between cultural exchange and the flow of information, and whether we're talking about RPG books, manga, or novels, it's all cultural material that should not be impeded, if we wish to honor our nation's treaty obligations.

Who else can do the legwork on this? Also, keep track of events through the PGS blog. This thing might totally blow over, but if it doesn't, then any news on this issue will probably come to us from there.

Well, no word from my friend in Law. I'll take that as an unusable contact at the moment, and I'll be doing the foot beat tomorrow at UP instead. I'll try to get in touch with our org advisor, Anna Sanchez, and see who she might be able to point us towards.

Anyone also around tomorrow? Notably juaberman? I do want to know what happened to those potential contacts of yours. Does anyone have any contacts with Ex Libris or Lingua Franca who could help us out?

Good job, people. Everything is being set into action. Just a suggestion, is there anyway to contact the UN about this issue? It "is" one of their agreements and if we can get a solid statement from them of their actual interpretation then we could end this swiftly. Just a thought carry on. Very Happy

Well, I wouldn't know. Anyone know how to get in touch with UNESCO? Still, I think that's going far afield. Focus right now is getting a draft of what we want to say, as well as an idea of our targets for a petition (such as who we want to sign it, and who we want to send it to).

I'm doing the footpad rounds tomorrow at UP to find out who we can talk to about this. I'm asking our org advisor, as well as checking to see if any of the profs I know can be contacted. Does anyone have any bibliophile contacts in Law? I'm not getting a response from my batchmate, so we'll have to look elsewhere.

I'm quite surprised with the set-up BJ implemented in facebook using the application "causes" about 1822 people already signed up to it. This is a great response. Great job, BJ. Very Happy

Wait, that's not mine. I just joined the existing cause. >.> Then I invited you guys.

I wish I could take credit, but in this particular one, I can't... Embarassed

I see. Well to whoever thought it up, Good job!!!! Very Happy

@BB: Cool! Thanks for the link. If anyone else is interested in asking UNESCO something go ahead. Play it cool, the less nerd rage the better.

Well, read the PGS blog and the links up there that I posted as resources. The law is pretty straightforward. I have to run, so I don't have time to find the link, but you might also want to check out the position paper by the Book Development Association of the Philippines, which tries to be authoritative on the legalese end.

Of the resources, as I said, anitero's is the most useful factually. The Florence treaty isn't that difficult. All you need is Article 1 and Annex A.

The PGS site is info central on this at the moment.

As I said, I'm doing the walking route to see who we can talk to today. Here's hoping it pans out well.

okay, so we've consulted some of the more politically adept people concerned with the Book Blockade, and they have gracefully replied to Phil's email. 1st off, Phil's email:

I still have a contact with Sir Andrada, one of our previous org advisers. If you guys can pass me a draft of a letter, I can forward it to him since his connected to STAND-UP.

I'm already establishing contact with Sir Mykel Andrada. I just found him on Facebook, believe it or not. Laughing

Here's the draft letter by Revan. It still needs to be lenghtened to flier-worthy standards (and proofread at that), but it must be done so ASAP. I'll be posting it in one of our new squidoo lenses. XD

Here's the new Squidoo lens. I won't link it off-boards until tomorrow, as it's still woefully incomplete.

On the Book Blockade by the UP HGC

Guys, just another idea if by any chance we send a copy of the letter to DepEd do you think that they'd offer their help?

Who the hell is Bibliophile Stalker (charles tan)?

No idea but is he really a Filipino? Plus, is that his real picture? @___@

Charles Tan is an associate of Comic Quest. he's the one in charge of the Comic Quest mailing list and Blogspot site. See, he's angry since I dissed CQ by saying they are not reliable for books (indirectly, at that).

He's pinoy, as far as I can tell. Tsinoy, if you want to delve into specifics.